Hawken barrel...which one?

[nvandal]

Folks,
Which barrel to go with for a .54 or .50 Hawken?
The givens: tapered octagon 1 1/8" to 1", round ball rifling, 35 to 36 inches long.
The choices:
Colerain @ $ 175.00 ( 36? )
Oregon @ $ 200.00 ( 35" )
Rice @ $ 250.00 ( 36" )
Considerations:
bore
rifling ( Rice and Colerain are round bottom )
accuracy
finish
authenticity
price/ value
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks kindly,
Norm Vandal
Roxbury, VT

[Keb]

I'm guessing none are breeched for a Hawken. Flint or percussion? Already tapered?
I'd go with the .54 Colerain simply for the price.

[Ray Nelson]

Norm,

Also consider your use for the finished Hawken. The final rifle weight and barrel twist might be added considerations? In my experience the weight balance difference between a finished 31 -33" length Hawken and a 36 1/2" length Hawken is considerable.

I believe the twist differences in barrels you list vary between 1x56"s and 1x72"s.

All three are ex cellant performers from my past experience having used at least one of each in a build.

Whatever choice you make if it is cost, twist or weight related should produce a satisfying end result with any of your listed choices.

By the way, it is my current understanding many original Hawken barrels were 1x48" twist.

Hope my comments clear your thoughts some or creates more not allready mentioned.

Ray

[Shootrj2003]

I'm no expert on them but I've heard or read that they were all or most were 1-48".

[gunmaker]

If your not in a hurry, Ed Rayl in WV makes anything safe & his work is legendary. He makes 'em 1 at a time so it's slow getting one but worth the wait.  304-364-8269....Tom

[Habu]

With those as the choices, I'd go with whichever one I could actually get my hands on in the timeframe I was working in. 

Jim

[snowdragon]

I'm thinking the same as Habu. You might consider delivery time as a factor in your choice. If the Colerain is availble now, it wouldn't be a bad choice, you're just going to put a lot of work into the outside finish. Joe at Oregon barrels says he can get a barrel to you in about three weeks. I haven't used one of his barrels yet, but I hear good things, like equal to Rice. I plan to order from him on my next build. Rice is fantastic, but you may be waiting weeks or months for your barrel.

I would definitely choose the .54 with that heavy tapered barrel. I am currently building a Hawken using a .58 Colerain barrrel, tapered 1-1/8 x 1 x 33". Trying to keep that weight down and keeping the length shorter for field use. Good luck. Bill

[bama]

I agree with snowdragon

I built one using a 1"x36"stright barrel and it was barrel heavy. It did hang good for offhand shooting but I would hate to know I had to tote on an all day hunt. I have used a 1"x3/4"x 34 or 36 straight taper in 50 cal that was really sweet. If you go for the 50 that is what I would recommend. For the larger barrel i would deffinately go with the 54/58.
I would also recommend you to go with the barrel that is available, all the makers are producing barrels that can shoot better than you can hold.

[Hawken62_flint]

For my Hawken, I had Ed Rayl build me a 1" straight octagon, 36 inches long in .62 caliber.  It shoots fantastic and handles like a dream.  It is definitely not muzzle heavy.  I sent Ed my Hawken flint breech plug and he installed it at no extra charge.  The first time to the range off the bench, it shot a 3 shot group measuring .72 inches--it was just one elongated hole.  If you are not in a hurry, I would talk to Ed about building you the type of barrel that you want.  As for the Oregon barrels, they are using the old Sharon Barrel Works machinery (that is what I understand) and if you know anything about Sharon barrels, they were as accurate and easy to load and clean as any barrel that has been made in the last 40 years.  Just my humble opinions. Good luck.

[Mark Elliott]

Rice has the best finish inside and out.   They run a carbide lap through the barrel to polish the lands and furrows and they finish sand the outside. You will not have to do anything to it before you brown it other than clean up your dings and degrease it.    That savings in work is worth it to me.   However,  as others have said,  it is probably best to go with what is available.   I prefer Getz and Rice for the finish, but it may take a year to get anything from either one.  The same goes for Ed Rayl.   He has over a year backlog the last time I heard.   I has gotten really hard to get barrels.

[Mike L]

Norm, email sent.
Mike

[Topknot]

As all have said, they are all top quality barrels. It has been my experience with .54s that the 1 in 66 or 1 in 72 twists can take a heavier powder charge while achieving good accuracy. Just my experience.

                                                     topknot

[Bob Roller]

The 1:48 was a common twist in old barrels.It is NOT a bullet gun twist
and that is another discussion.The 1:72 was used in rifled muskets like the
Enfield and Springfields of the Civil War. The modern use of the 1:66 and 1:72
came along in more recent times and has been a favorite for those who want
to pour and half of a horn of powder down the barrel.The best shooting round
ball rifle I ever had was a light 58 caliber off hand type with the first octagon
barrel Bill Large made when he got his big shop going and it was a 1:44.
It liked 65 grains of DuPont or Curtis&Harvey's 3fg and did just fine.

Bob Roller

[Dennis Glazener]

Call Troy Roope with Stonewall Creek Outfitters ( http://www.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com/ ) His 20% discount on in stock Colerain is still on or at least it was last week. I bought two 44" B profiles for $324 ($152 ea) which included shipping/ins.

I too prefer Rice/Getz/Rayl but the Colerain's are in stock and if you need them now they are a great buy.
Dennis

[Don Stith]

Unfortunately TC  destroyed the reputation of 1-48 round ball barrels. Their shallow grooves just did not work with patched round balls. It had nothing to do with the twist rate.
 Look for 7 groove rifling if you are concerned with historically correct appearance on a Hawken bore and not round bottom grooves. A coned muzzle with the rifling deepened through the entire cone area is also needed. Except for Rayl, you will have to file that detail in yourself. Not sure how much Rayl charges to add that feature
 Mark deHaas still makes excellent tapered barrels. He does not make swamped ones..That probably helps keep his delivery in a more reasonable time frame

[gunmaker]

That's a lot a good info,  I've used DeHaas' bbl.  and they speak for themselves. I'd put Mark on any bbl. maker list & he's fairly quick. I have a friend who's a fly fisherman, he only has 1 type of fly in his box.  "Take any one" he says "they're all good".   Those bbl are in that category as well....Tom

[Bennypapa]

DON STITH stated"""Unfortunately TC  destroyed the reputation of 1-48 round ball barrels. Their shallow grooves just did not work with patched round balls."""

I must respectfully disagree. I own a TC .50 in 1:48" twist with those shallow grooves and it can put 5 shots touching at 50 yards off the bench. I place in the top half of shooters at offhand matches that include shooters who regularly win at friendship. My little TC is very accurate shooting 0.018" pillow ticking lubed at loading with alcohol and murphys oil soap and a home cast 0.490 round balls.

Now, it took some testing and a few different lubes/thicknesses of patch to get the combo that works, AND it it not as forgiving if you vary from that recipe but a tight patch and 55 grains 3f do just fine thank you. It won't shoot well at all with butter type lubes though all else being the same.

TC barrels do shoot PRB accurately if your load is correct.

Ben

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have to jump onto Don Stith 's platform.  My first muzzle loading rifle was a very early T/C "Hawken" in flint lock.  I rang it out looking for a good load, and you are right;  it would do fine at up to and including 50 yards, but at 100, it really sucked.  At 200 yds. - forget it!  It wasn't the 1:48 twist either - it was the shallow button rifling!  For 100 yds. and beyond, this pilgrim likes rifling to be at least .010" - .014" if square and a little more if round bottomed.  The twist, as long as it's 1:48 + is fine.  My .60 Jaeger has a Getz barrel with 1:66" twist, and it has won several difficult long range matches out to ~250 yds.  You cannot do that with a T/C barrel in .50 cal with a 55 grain charge.

[shifty]

  Don with a 1-48" twist barrel what do you think would be the best depth for the grooves, I have 54 cal barrel and have wandered if I could get someone to deepen the grooves in it, it shoots fairly good up to 80grns then goes to pot real fast past 50yds.

[Don Stith]

I like .012 to .015 depth rifling for round ball. Have not shot competively for several years but one of the best cross stick match barrels I ever shot was a 50 cal, 1-48 with .015 rifling.