Matthew Gillespie Inspired build

[sweed]

Howdy again form Texas

I’m working out my options for my build, and I’ve read tidbits here and there about the pros/cons of different woods. I’m contemplating a Matthew Gillespie, with some brass furniture. I know it’s supposed to be Iron, but I like brass.  Here is my list of parts for critique:

Rice Southern classic A weight Radius rifling in .45 cal

T O W Early Ketland ? Who makes this lock? I want to round off the rear of the plate as on the M. G. on Dennis’s site. Is there another lock that would serve me better to this end?

R E Davis 0004 trigger

Brass Triggerguard from Dennis.

Now for the wood.  I know that walnut would be authentic, although the Gillespies did use some cherry  and maple.  I’m leaning toward Cherry at the moment. Could you folks that know give me some pointers on the pros/cons of these woods. Durability, workability Exct.?

Any and all comments, suggestions, and advise will be appreciated! This will be my first build, but I have extensive woodwork experience and am going to start from a board or maybe a blank.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I've built only one rifle in curly cherry, and I'm not in a hurry to build another. My experience with it was that it tended to be very brittle and chippy. I worked harder on that cherry stock than on any curly maple stock. It required much more care than normal especially with inlays and carving. With all that said I was very happy with the way it turned out. Others mileage may vary.

[Roger Fisher]

I'd stick with the iron; but thats only me!      As you know, some folks are bothered headache wise working with walnut dust....; but it's your project.   I have built one or so such Gillispies and I like 'em!

[Dennis Glazener]

I’m contemplating a Matthew Gillespie, with some brass furniture. I know it’s supposed to be Iron, but I like brass.

Not really a problem. Mathew made rifles with iron and also brass hardware. His sons made a lot of rifles with brass hardware.

Rice Southern classic A weight Radius rifling in .45 cal

Good choice, my Mathew has one of those long boat anchor barrels on it, same as many others but a Gillespie cousin of mine has a Mathew with a barrel that is very close to the Rice southern classic AND the Getz light barrel (I think that is what John calls it). I used to use the B profile barrels but I built one with the Rice classic and have one with one of the Getz barrels in it and that's what I plan to use going forward (unless customer wants the boat anchor barrel).

T O W Early Ketland ?

NO, use a Chambers late Ketland or Davis Classic Ketland or similiar lock. The Early Ketland's are too early and too large for this type rifle. I have rounded off the tail of several Chambers late Ketland. Another good style lock is the L&R Ashmore which I think is now called the late English, just make sure it sparks good.
**I just got to thinking, this is a rather large lock and probably too big to look right on an A profile barrel**

R E Davis 0004 trigger

Not like the original but that's what I use most of the time.

I’m leaning toward Cherry at the moment.

I like cherry after its done but I hate to work with it. So far I have built 4/5 rifles in cherry and everytime I say never again! Its so brittle that it will chip out pieces before you know it. Even with a plain mountain rifle you have to be very careful, don't make your inletting real tight or you risk pulling out a splinter when removing the lock/inlay etc. Ask me how I know! Just be sure to find the splinter and keep some glue handy to glue it back. If you are an experienced builder go for the cherry otherwise I would use maple. Much of the walnut is also brittle unless its crotch grain, I like working with it better than cherry but maple is still by far the best to work with.

Dennis

[gunmaker]

That late Ketland by Chambers is one quick puppy, should look O.K. on lite rifle....tom

[cunninmp]

I have the Late Ketland by Chambers. Great lock and really throws sparks.

[sweed]

Thanks to all

SOoooo...now I'm lookin' at a different lock. I will also turn my back on The ol cherry tree. I'm not really fond of fancy, but I do like strong and durable. What grade of maple do I need?

[Meteorman]

shoot, I've done a couple in cherry and loved em both. 
have built a bunch of furniture in cherry with same enjoyment.
no problems. 
the cherry gunstocks weren't highly figured, but good appearance nonetheless.
you can get difficult, chippy wood in any species;  I personally wouldn't be too quick to generalize that cherry is always problematic.
General origin of the tree (north vs south in their range) may play a role, dunno. 
get what you want and work with it, in my opinion.
/m

[PPatch]

I agree /m. It is all about where a tree grew and its particular wood. But cherry is generally more difficult to work than maple. Speaking from experience in furniture making, not gun stocks.

dave

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Thanks to all

SOoooo...now I'm lookin' at a different lock. I will also turn my back on The ol cherry tree. I'm not really fond of fancy, but I do like strong and durable. What grade of maple do I need?

Buy the lock from Jim Chambers if you decide on his late ketland. It is different than if built and sold by others. His are guaranteed.

I recently used the little square tailed Davis late English lock and it is a fine and very fast lock as well.


This L& R trigger fits the MG and with only a little modification looks pretty good  LR1810

[bgf]

Dr. Tim,
Those L&R triggers work very well.  I think I like them better than the Davis triggers for looks, operation (esp. backlash adjustment), and ease of modification.  The only things I don't like is that they built up the trigger bars so that you have to take them back down for tight spaces, and the flat return spring requires a little more clearance (i.e. wood removal and distance from tang bolt).

[Dennis Glazener]

What grade of maple do I need?

Normally you don't see highly stripped maple in a Gillespie but quite often it does have some curl. I like the Dunlap Grade 1, II and III. At one time they were all the same price but I think now the grade III may be $10 higher.

Here is his website http://www.dunlapwoodcrafts.com/Gunstocks.php and also he will be at the Williamsburg VA Long Rifle show March 23/24.
Dennis

[sweed]

Howdy all

Thanks to all for the advice. I am beginning to feel that I have studied enough to appreciate good advise now. As for the stock I am going to be in contact w/ Mr. Glazener for a #2 or #3 stock blank. I’ll trust him to steer me right on that and send me a good piece of wood. 
Special thanks to Dr. Tim. Little did you know I was going to contact you, PM if necessary, cause I found posts indicating you had built a similar piece. The lock advice is well taken. The L&R trigger really looks like the M G trigger. I’ve looked at so many locks and triggers trying to get a good match that my eyes squirt blood at the sight of any such thing. Thanks for your experience! To me, Propper Planning, is always better than impulse action. I want this to be a usefull tool that I can pass on to my kids, so I want to get it right the first time. If any one sees any dead falls ahead of me I'd really like to hear it.

[Dennis Glazener]

I am beginning to feel that I have studied enough to appreciate good advise now. As for the stock I am going to be in contact w/ Mr. Glazener for a #2 or #3 stock blank. I’ll trust him to steer me right on that and send me a good piece of wood.  

Sweed, I do not have any maple stock blanks for sale. I was just suggesting that I normally get mine from Dunlap, mostly because its good wood and close to me. He also is at several of the show's that I attend. I am not sure where you live, possibly someone close to you would be best for you. One option, if you are going to build the rifle from scratch is to find your local wood dealer that sells wood to furniture builders. Find a two inch thing by about 9" wide board that is at least 6 ft long. Depending on how you lay the stock out you can get from 1 to 2 blanks out of it. The last 8 ft board I bought like this cost me about $50 and I got two blanks out of it with pretty decent grain structure through the wrist.
Dennis

[54ball]

 Sweed,

 I chose a different lock on mine as I already had the Chambers Late Ketland on my .45 Gillespie, built from a blank by a feller from Virginia. I just wanted to try something different but available in the era.

 If you use one Dennis' socks which I recommend,  It's made for the Chambers Late Ketland and similar.

 Here is the lock I chose.
 

 Here it is mocked up on the stock...


 Here is the lock plate with a little work.




 With the tail filed an reshaped, that Davis is going to do just fine.

  I almost used their 1803 as I have seen Southern rifles with military locks, but I decided on the contract lock that's a sister to the 1803 in style.  I'm using the goose neck model instead of the double throat.  This lock is based on  American made locks of the 1790s-1800 era.

 Do I recommend you do this? No, not really unless you want to. I just wanted to show that you can modify other style locks from the era.

 On mine I'm using a combination of iron and brass, a iron guard and side inlay with brass pipes.

 I have a cherry stock, so far it has worked well, I need to get back to it.