Author Topic: Hickory Bucks progress  (Read 15660 times)

Offline Lucky R A

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 06:33:53 PM »
Rich,
       I think once you set the tang in a bit deeper and straighten out the top line of the wrist you will see a gun markedly similar to the gun you are copying.
        Dan,  A month or so ago I finished a Bucks Co. fowler based on an obscure Bucks Co. maker (E. Bloom).  The barrel used was a Getz 16 ga.  44."   The combline is virtually the same as the gun Rich is working on.  The gun is quite light, when I sighted it in w/ a .648 ball & 70 Gr. of 2f I did not notice excessive recoil or get smacked in the cheek.  I have built and shot a fair number of Bucks Co. guns and haven't encounter problems with the stock design.   
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 10:11:14 PM »
Lucky,

You're right, I've shot a lot of Vernor/Buck's guns in the past, and the only problem I ever had was what to do with my right thumb.  It seemed to line up quite nicely between my cheek and eyeball.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 11:08:49 PM »
No recoil in a .36 with a B weight barrel, I'm betting.  I have a .45 Bucks county gun of sorts I built in 1978 with a tapered 15/16 to 13/16", 42" barrel that shoots quite nicely, but have never tried it in a bigger caliber.
Andover, Vermont

Offline flehto

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 01:16:29 AM »
Three of the Bucks County LRs  {anyways they had the same stock architecture} that I built were .54s  and the "stiff" load function firings were all very conmfortable. No cheek slap at all...just like the Lancassters....Fred
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 01:19:32 AM by flehto »

Offline Stophel

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2013, 01:31:41 AM »
I'm on a cell phone, so I can't see that well, but the lock tail doesn't look all THAT low to me. Besides, it's way better to be too low than too high!
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Offline little joe

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2013, 01:43:41 AM »
In looking at the origional peice in question I noticed the foreward lock bolt and the squared at the front, sideplate.Not correct in our thinking, however it was occasionaly did that way. Build your gun and hava a good time and seek  perfection on the next one.

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2013, 05:27:56 AM »
I would build it as is. Looking at hundreds of photos and handling many old rifles you will see what in our eyes are mistakes. RCA no. one-two will show several rifles with mistakes, or were they. Possibly the maker planned it that way. We do not know. Lil Joe


One of my favorite studies in orig longrifles is how the builders fixed their bobooos,and made it look right.Much leeway here in this area.I have a flintrifle built in 1978,front lockscrew got out of line in the build.We just filled the hole in plate with threadstock,and made a proper head  on a woodscrew to match up the main screw.No one who has looked at this gun closely has ever spotted it.Just an idea.Great looking piece of hickory.Been thinking of doing one in poplar,but have a cherry and 2 walnut lrs to finish first.Best regards,Dave

Offline GANGGREEN

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2013, 01:09:21 AM »
Rich, I'm curious in general how you've found the hickory to work with.  I've promised my two sons that I'd build them halfstock rifles and I'd like to use stock wood from here on the farm and I wouldn't mind it being something unique.  I have a lot of soft and hard maple (not sure if I'll find any with nice feature) but I'm curious about the hickory.  I'm also anxious to see this gun stained and finished.  Any idea what you'll do for stain yet?


Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2013, 05:59:47 AM »
I may do another in hickory, but that will be enough.  It can be splintery.  Hard is one thing, but splintery is another.  I would say that plain maple of equal hardness (rare) is smoother to work, gives cleaner cuts regardless of grain direction, etc.  The pores are visible.  I do think it is better to work than ash which, for me, is difficult because of seeming difference in hardness at the growth ring edges.  I take my hat off to folks who work hard white ash well, and to those who can carve it, the drinks are on me.

I hesitated to talk about stocking in hickory because I think the 3 main stock woods Jim Kibler mentioned in another post (walnut, maple and cherry) are the most common because they are the best American hardwoods to work and suit the needs well.  hickory is not the most stable wood with moisture change, but it makes great tough tool handles.  Nobody cares if their shovel handle grows a quarter inch when it swells, but a gunstock should not.  It won't be my wet weather gun.  The grain is plain.  It's hard to work and when you lift a splinter it goes deep into the finger.

I'll stain with aquafortis- I've used it for tool handles made of hickory.  I may fill the pores with black filler.
Andover, Vermont

Offline GANGGREEN

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2013, 05:13:45 AM »
Thanks for the reply Rich.  I guess hickory is out for me, I'll have to hope that the several curly maple logs I have laying by the barn mill down nicely and can be used for my sons' guns.

Offline pathfinder

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2013, 05:12:31 PM »
Yeah,after looking at it for a LONG time,I think I would bend the tang down @ 1/4" behind the breech and continue the line down the wrist to the comb. Seem's tobe a little "hump" just behind the cock.
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2013, 05:37:53 PM »
Rather than just look at the work in progress, I think it would be beneficial to carefully compare it to the original shown.  I'm not sure some of the assesments are too accurate.  The profile of a gun like this is crucial in my view.  This is one of the main features that make this style so striking.  Blowing up a photo of the butstock region can be a good way to get the desired shape. 

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2013, 03:13:54 AM »
I agree with Jim ... When I look at your pictures from the left side the wrist looks much closer to the original than from the right side...but on the right side you still have a lot of wood to remove under the tail of the lock & I think more wood off above the tail as well. The tang may need to come down some but why does it look different from the two sides???   Using a paper pattern like our polish friend who glues them right on the stock might help ferret out the exact cuts you need to make.....
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:51:57 AM by Dr. Tim-Boone »
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2013, 03:48:17 AM »
One of the techniques that has worked for me, to make sure I get enough wood off the stock especially at the wrist, is to make a full sized blueprint of the profile of the right side of the butt stock.  So if you can determine how big the barrel is, or the lock is, or any other component, you can scale the rest to determine the vertical height of the wrist at various points along its length.  I was surprised to find that these dimensions are so small, and that I still had a huge amount of wood to remove.  And of course, the best instructor of all is to have original rifles in hand to study.  Only then can you get your head around how fine and tiny they are.  I've only had the pleasure and privilege twice in my life, but it left a lasting impression on me.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 03:34:08 PM »
Rather than just look at the work in progress, I think it would be beneficial to carefully compare it to the original shown.  I'm not sure some of the assesments are too accurate.  The profile of a gun like this is crucial in my view.  This is one of the main features that make this style so striking.  Blowing up a photo of the butstock region can be a good way to get the desired shape. 

Good advice.  My only photos are low res auction photos and I had no measurements so skipped that step. I have always done that on other rifles modeled after a specific original and will try that now and see what can be done.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2013, 06:43:04 PM »
One thing that may help...  Take the image you have and draw the outline in on it and then blow it up.  Might give you a decent idea of the butstock size and shape.

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 07:54:47 PM »
One thing that may help...  Take the image you have and draw the outline in on it and then blow it up.  Might give you a decent idea of the butstock size and shape.

This will work if you can get an accurate measurement of some part of the gun. Say LOP for instance. Then take it to a good print shop and give him the image you have drawn the outline on and the measurement.  If he is interested ??? in helping you he should get you out with a full size image for less than 30 to 50 $$$$. ::) It's worth all of that. If he gets one measurement correct all others will be correct. I think I'd wait until it was full size before I did the outline as that should be more precise.

Oh yes!! Get a CD copy made so you can get more copies if needed. Nother 5$. :-\

Offline flehto

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2013, 05:12:23 PM »
One thing that may help...  Take the image you have and draw the outline in on it and then blow it up.  Might give you a decent idea of the butstock size and shape.

That's exactly the way I do it and no doubt many others also. Penciling over the photo onto drafting paper and then enlarging on the computer to a size that suits , usually the buttplate, and then comparing the resultant wrist height and possibly adjusting the "blow up" should come close. It's a lot easier and more accurate if some dims such as found in RCA 1 & 2 are used along w/ the photo.....Fred

Offline Captchee

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2013, 04:57:12 PM »
 I realize im alittle late on this topic but a couple things  im seeing Rich
 While it does at this point look like your lock is dipped   low ,  im not sure that it  really is  to the point it seems right now . The belly curve is IMO accenting the  angle  at the moment .

. What im seeing is that the top line  on the right side is off . 
 I would drop the tang  as much as you can  so as to bring that curve   back to a nice smooth  flat arch like on the original .. Right now I see that as your problem . More then the lock placement

 Myself I have never been one for   adding large amounts of wood . If the issue is that great ,  then its time to own the  mistake.
 That being said , once you bring the tang down alittle , if you  still think the lock dips to much , then bring the back  of it up alittle . That way you only have a small sliver to  fill in on  inlet   

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hickory Bucks progress
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2013, 09:14:24 PM »
Thanks, all.  It will be a couple weeks before I can get to it again and hopefully with fresh eyes.  Had to move my entire lab to another building on campus and so long hours at work getting re-organized.

I think that with working a crooked blank, I never did get the layout right, and it does not take much on a slim rifle to make it "off".
Andover, Vermont