Westley Richards Shotgun

[Wolfeknives]

A long time ago I was given a Westley Richards shotgun, or at least part of it. It is identical to the gun shown here: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=25698.0 However, the stock is broken at the wrist, with the butt section missing. The damascus barrels are not in the greatest shape, mostly in the bore. The remaining parts, including the locks are in very decent shape.
I have hung on to this thinking that it may be possible to get it restocked and restored to make it a nice wall hanger. Another possibility was to get someone to rebuild it into a shooter, using the good parts and re - barreling with modern barrels.
Are there any suggestions on the wisdom to do either, and who would be able to do this work? Is this even a project any gunmaker would take on?

Wolfgang

[westbj2]

Wolfgang,
Thoughts on restocking, restoring or rebuilding.
From an economic point of view, any of the above options are likely not viable.  Labor costs would exceed what you could buy on the antique market in the way of a similar shotgun.  With some patience and searching, you could find another W.R. needing no work in the area of $3-4K.
Jim Westberg

[Mike Brooks]

$1500 minimum for a new stock.

[Captchee]

   The stock price would depend a lot on the wood you chose .
 Restocked in a nice piece of walnut  400-500 easy enough.
 Butt plate  ??  I probably got an original from a WR  kicking around out in the shop . would depend on which one your gun had originaly .
 The barrels IMO would be the kicker   especially if you wanted  new barrels . That would be 7-800 easy
This WR  had a broken wrist , but the barrels only needed cleaned up and polished  then refinished


 this  WR also had a broken stock . it was a later model with a cheek piece and the owner wanted  an exsotic wood  used to replace the stock . barrels are also originals


 neather cost over 400.00 to restock

 while  not muzzle loaders , here are 2 brownings , that i did in  maple  with ebony and and silver butt plates . both were less then 500.00 to restock . mind you both stocks  were a whole lot harder to do then a muzzleloader
.


 i would agree that  the cost would be more then what the  monitary value  of the gun would be .
 for what ever reason , SXS are just not to collectable  so they dont have a very high value .  
 again your biggest cost is going to be in rebarreling it

 if yours is like the one feltwad posted , then its a later piece without drip rails

[Jim Kibler]

You work way too cheap.  I don't find working for peanuts any fun.

[Captchee]

You work way too cheap.  I don't find working for peanuts any fun.

well thanks Jim . but naa not cheep for around here . i have 2 other stock makers localy  who use duplicators.  thus their stocks are running around 200 finished .
 but i do my from hand the same way i do my rifle stocks.
 I have done stocks that ran  over 2500 . but the presentation grade  wood also cost over 1800.00

swore i would never ever do one of those again .   the intemidation factor of the wood alone  is enough to keep a fella up at night . wish i had a photo of that  SXS . i lost them when my PC went down some years back . the only photos i have are of the ebony Butt platewith the german silver heal and toe plates being made . it belongs to the owner of Jiffy lube Corp.  he comes out and chucker hunts with a friend  every so often . simply wonderful gun . but i sure wouldnt be taking it out and dragging it throught the hills . but thats just what he does .

 I think the hardest one  I ever worked on was  a Nazi  SXS that  was missing the forearm .
  Now normally  that wouldn’t be an issue  but  on that piece , all cocking , and ejector mechanism was all inside the forearm. I had to make it all  while at the same time fitting it to the receiver.
 So think of  this .
2 main springs , 2  hammers , 2 tumblers and 2 sears all  hidden in a splinter forearm.
 On that piece I worked way to cheep , way , way to cheep LOL . But it was one of those piece that  the deeper I got into  it  the more amazed  I became that  the whole idea  was ever  done .
 Then you get to thinking , If they could do it , I can do it and damit I will    

[westbj2]

Captchee,
Looking at the pics of the double you posted, primarily the locks, I notice that only two pins are visible on the lockplate rear of the hammer.  I am wondering if the locks are marked "Westley Richards" or "W. Richards"?  Also curious about the markings on the barrel rib.
Jim Westberg

[Captchee]

 boy you know i dont remember  its been a while . but i dont belive they were W, Richards

[Captchee]

sorry i forgot the barrels  again i would have to  call the owners . but WR should be marked on the barrels as well as london .
 and no they were not marked "Westley Richards & Comp "

[westbj2]

The reason I asked about the lock and barrel markings is because of the locks which are on the gun in the pictures.
EVERY Westley Richards of this period will have higher quality locks than those shown (usually of the 4 screw-pierced bridal variety).  Also the lockplates will be marked "Westley Richards", and the rib will read the same full name along with "160 Bond St. London".  
If the gun you refer to at the start of this thread does not have these markings it is a cheap trade gun marked W. Richards with "Fine Twist' or some similar accolade on the rib.  If the lattter is the case, add what remains of the stock to your next campfire and use the barrels for a tomato stake.
Jim

[Captchee]

 well i can tell you they were not cheep lock . in fact they were very nice locks .
 dont bet also on one singly type of lock being found on every gun .
I have seen Greeners and Parkers  with the very same 2 bolt of locks 
 its also why i stated that it didnt say Comp  . just so you dididnt get confused and assume some belgium knock off .
 but then  Westley Richards  also used "and company on his lower quality guns .

If the gun you refer to at the start of this thread does not have these markings it is a cheap trade gun marked W. Richards

 just alittle extra for you so you don’t assume to assume  or start folks doing the same

W. Richards, Liverpool: "All my guns have 'W. Richards Old Hall Street' on the barrels, 'W. Richards' on locks, Guards are numbered."
W. Richards, Preston, Lancashire: (Editor's note: This is another branch of the same firm above. At one point, they had a branch in Preston as well as Liverpool) "All my guns have 'W. Richards, 44 Fishergate, Preston', on the top rib, 'W. Richards' on the lock plates, all guards are numbered."
Westley Richards, London and Birmingham: "'Westley Richards' and appropriate address on rib (or Westley Richards & Co on lower grade guns). All guns have 'Westley Richards' on lock plates and bear the 'Westley Richards triangle' trade mark."

 when it comes to barrels , thats your oppenion . myself i have seen English barrels that were just as big of pieces of $#@* .
 in fact its a mistake to assume that just becouse a set of barrels are marked with a london address   OR have london proof marks , that they are london barrels. makers marks tell the tail  not some proof .
 now i dont know about what you find , but out here in the west where alot of these old SXS saw hard use , its not uncommon to find  mixed and matched parts .
i have seen very nice PARKER barrels on sxs with  cheep belgium slash marked locks . i also have seen WW Greener locks with belgium barrels
 i also had in my shop  at one time a very nice Parker SXS that for what ever reason  someone had the barrels changed out .
 the center rib was still marked Sear and Robuck , if you can belive that  one .

 but all that is neather here nor there. if you think somehow writing on a barrel or lock  somehow effects how the stock is made  past a  given makers design , then  your going to have to exsplain that one to me

[Wolfeknives]

Thank you for all the opinions. The advise is exactly what I was looking for. It is clear that it makes no sense to have any work done on these remains. They were given to me under the condition that I would keep them, so it will be a wall hanger in my shop, as is.

Wolfgang

[varsity07840]

Does anyone here have any info on W/R rifles? I have a percussion sporting rifle that's one of my favorite deer rifles, but have yet to find  even a photo of another one.  It looks  very similar to the Purdy that Ross Seyfried referred to in his articles about Forsyth rifling in Blackpowder Hunting years ago. I've owned it for quite some time and I'm a bit curious about its value.

Duane

[keweenaw]

varsity,

Westley Richards made a wide variety of sporting arms, single shot percussion rifles, double percussion rifles and then cartridge rook rifles as well as double rifles, falling block single shots and eventually bolt action rifles.  In addition they made lots of military contract rifles in some neat conformations.  Westley Richards made not only best grade guns but also similar guns with less decoration and more average wood and plain, B, series guns.  The serial numbers on the different lines overlap but all the record books exist and for a fee Westley Richards will look up your gun and tell you when it was made and for whom.  At there web site some guns in some series can be identified as to year of manufacture for free.

Because of the many grades of guns that were made and the fact that the price can vary widely with condition it's not possible to give even a ball park figure for a gun without quite a lot of information.

Tom

[varsity07840]

varsity,

Westley Richards made a wide variety of sporting arms, single shot percussion rifles, double percussion rifles and then cartridge rook rifles as well as double rifles, falling block single shots and eventually bolt action rifles.  In addition they made lots of military contract rifles in some neat conformations.  Westley Richards made not only best grade guns but also similar guns with less decoration and more average wood and plain, B, series guns.  The serial numbers on the different lines overlap but all the record books exist and for a fee Westley Richards will look up your gun and tell you when it was made and for whom.  At there web site some guns in some series can be identified as to year of manufacture for free.

Because of the many grades of guns that were made and the fact that the price can vary widely with condition it's not possible to give even a ball park figure for a gun without quite a lot of information.

Tom

I'd post some pics but I have no idea on how to do it.

[keweenaw]

If you go to the tutorial section of the forum and then to miscellaneous tutorials about the fourth one down is on downloading photos.