Damascus pistol barrels

[titanicslim]

Has anybody got any experience/info concerning the Damascus tubes that Peter Dyson is selling?  They are round, so I'd need a horizontal mill or maybe a Bridgeport to make the flats- What would be the best tool for that?  Fly cutter?  For that matter, it shouldn't cost much to have the rough work done by a small shop here, then do the taper/flare myself with files.  That part is not worrying.

The bores are about .47" and would need to be bored a little.  I'd like to make a c.1800 dueler, which means about .50 cal., right?  Any concerns regarding safety?   

Dave

[keweenaw]

47 cal would do fine for a dueling pistol.  As to making them octagon, it's easy to do on a bridgeport using a standard 3/4" end mill if you hold the barrel in an indexing head.  The fly cutter is not a good idea.  You can easily cut the taper on the barrel in the mill by adjusting the tailstock that goes with the indexing head.  I believe that most octagonal barrel dueling pistols were not tapered and flared, rather they were straight octagon as the idea is to have a muzzle heavy piece.  Since you'll pay a considerable premium to buy the damascus blank, have it milled, bored and rifled, you are going to really want to have this done rather than just buying a barrel from Ed Rayl that will come out of the package exactly like you want.  There would be no safety concerns regarding the damascus blank.

Tom

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
Dueling pistol barrels (European and English) were often swamped but the taper and flaring was subtle.  Tom's comments about heavy barrels is true for some duelers built in the early 1800s.  Joe Manton built some of them that way.  Two of the 3 dueling pistols that I have handled were made that way and in my opinion they felt awful to my hand. Remember, not everything the old masters did worked well and they did some things to satisfy fads. Very early "true" dueling pistols sometimes had octagon to round barrels but the classic barrel during the 1780s-1810 was usually swamped octagon around 50-60 cal and smoothbore.  Ed Rayl's 50 cal swamped pistol barrel is a good one for dueling pistols although it is rifled.  If I were to use them again I think I would reduce the flare at the muzzle just a little.  You will have trouble finding a proper triggerguard to mimic the original pistols. Virually all of the commercial castings for pistols are too small and incorrectly shaped.  They should be steel and made with a large bow.   Good luck.

dave   

[titanicslim]

Thanks for the feedback!

Nothing against Ed Rayl's work (the barrel on the pistol I just finished is a .32 cal. from him and wants to stick them all in the same hole) but I am dead-set on Damascus for this project.   Almost every example of the type that I have really liked had such a barrel and that feature seems to put them in a much better class of hardware.  I just wish the price was less than a hundred Pounds

Wow, you're right about the trigger guard- I can't find one that seems likely.  TRS has "French Target Pistol" hardware that is close but I think my best bet is to adapt a TG from a long-gun. 

[Ezra]

Blakeley & son has some pistol trigger guards. 


Ez

[smart dog]

Dave,
The Damascus barrels at Dyson just don't look like the patterns you see on duelers (at least English ones).  They look more like patterns you would find on shotguns from the late 19th century.  Maybe they have different patterns not shown on the website.  I am almost finished with a pair of Wogden duelers and plan to fake a Damascus type pattern consistent with duelers I have seen.  I am going to try acid etching and browning.  I'll let you know how I do in a couple of weeks.  Also, the pineapple trigger guard from Blackley is appropriate but it looks a bit crude in the picture.  I opted to make my own.

dave

[jerrywh]

titanicslim.
 I bought three of the long damascus blanks from Dyson. Two of them I had made into rifle barrels. I still have the other and will make pistol barrels from it.
  Be sure to do the inside first. The bores are very rough and will take a lot of reaming to clean up. the whole tube needs to be straightened first as they are not straight.  The insides of the ones I worked on cleaned up at 5/8" ID.   I cut the tappered flats on a mill drill with a index head and an adjustable tail stock. For a cutter all you need is a 1/2" end mill. The front swamp I cut on the lathe. I made a form cutter for the weding band. The tapper on the octagon part was .010 pr. in. They are soft as butter. The pattern is what I call a fingerprint pattern. In my opinion the yare worth the money. They are not big enough in diameter to make anything larger than a .50 cal. Rifle out of if the yare lined. I don't see the need to line them for a pistol.    What else??

[titanicslim]

I just went to Blackley's site and could not find pictures of their castings.   Is there possibly a link?   Rather than buy a pig in a poke, I'll just make something.  Life's too short.   The Dyson Damascus might not be the exact pattern but what will the machined and polished flats look like?   And I believe that hole will have to be bored, at least to clean it up and ensure proper consistency before we start messing with pressure.  I sure wish you luck with those barrels.   If I could figure out how Derringer did their marbled browning...

[Ezra]

Try this link.  I ordered their catalog.  Should be getting it soon.  I will report when I do.  I am interested in what kind of small pistol lock castings they have.

http://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Trigger_guards.html

Good luck.


Ez

[titanicslim]

Thanks!  And please, let us know if they have more in their print catalogue.

[Acer Saccharum]

I was never impressed with Blackley's web site. I, too, would be curious if their catalog has more information than their site. Their castings are very good.

Acer

[keweenaw]

Blackley's catalog doesn't have photos of guards or buttcaps in it except for their early dragoon pistol.  The catalog does include a sheet of paper with a "Please Note"
"You may be interested to know of our large range of ... Trigger guards, butt plates/caps, sideplates and other furniture.  Please ask for more details."

They have loads of stuff that is neither on the web site or in the catalog.  Send them an email asking about what you want.  Today I emailed them to see if they have  butt cap and guard castings for the Wilson holster pistol for which they have locks.  Sometimes it takes them awhile to reply.

On Dyson's damascus pistol blanks -- That pattern wouldn't be appropriate for an 1800 period dueling pistol as originals from that period were stub twist and not two wire twist.  Just a point but many guys are trying to authenticity.  The diameter is also small at 0.95" to make a octagon barrel.  It would yield under 7/8" across the flats.  Tapered and flared it would end up being lighter than I would like in a dueling pistol if the bore had to be opened up to 52 or 54 to get it clean.

I always carefully consider if my investment will give me what I want.

Tom

[jerrywh]

I used to think that all the Damascus barrels of the Dueling period in England were stubb twist but that is not so. I have seen an original Manton dueler that has a twist nearly identical to the pattern on the Dyson Damascus blanks.