round balls with holes?

[brobb]

This picture was part of a post on the comtemporary gunmakers blog.  Some of the round balls shown appear to have holes in them.  Does anyone know anything about this?  What was the purpose of doing this?

Bruce Robb

[smylee grouch]

Looks like they (the balls) were pulled.

[alyce-james]

Good afternoon Sir; Well Bruce, they could be an early hollow point. AJ

[PPatch]

Don't know the purpose here but I'd bet they flutter, buzz or whistle when they fly by your head.

dave

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Aren't those Russian poison pellets. If the bullet didn't kill you the poison would.

[draken]

I think smylee grouch has it right, that those bullets were pulled.    For whatever reason, those pistols were likely loaded and unloaded several times.   

Just my two cents worth.

[brobb]

Thank you for your thoughts.  I think Russian poison pellets is by far the most exotic and it could be true.  Therefore lacking any real evidence Russian poison pellets are my favorite.

Bruce Robb

[trentOH]

  The lower pistol seems to have more silver on the ramrod. Any idea what that is???

[Roger Fisher]

This picture was part of a post on the comtemporary gunmakers blog.  Some of the round balls shown appear to have holes in them.  Does anyone know anything about this?  What was the purpose of doing this?

Bruce Robb

First off we'll assume the pistols were rifled not smooth...It appears in the photo that the balls show no rifling marks and unless they were loaded very loose they should ...what say you.?

[Daryl]

Looks like they (the balls) were pulled.

That's my guess with these English Pistols.

[Don Tripp]

"Pulled" seems the most logical explanation. I have cast some round balls that ended up with small hole because I didn't warm my mold up before casting but those holes were not as perfect as these seem to be.

[JBlk]

It seems to me that at one time their was a kit advertised that would put different patterns of holes in your roundballs.If I remember the article correctly it was supposed to make the round ball expand dramatically when hitting the target.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I can't imagine why someone would pull so many balls then put them back with your good ones. Any pulled balls I've seen look scratched up and distorted those look like they were made that way. I think it doesn't make sense. 

[SCLoyalist]

I'm thinking pulled, too.  Maybe the balls with the holes represent duels which were settled by a last minute apology or reconciliation.   Or, the dueling code appears to  cover instances where a second loaded pair of pistols were to be ready.

Rule 24. In slight cases, the second hands his principal but one pistol; but in gross cases, two, holding another case ready charged in reserve.

If there was a peaceful settlement or a pair of unfired pistols at the duel's end , the balls could have been pulled and just thrown back into the case. A close examination of the cavities to see if they show signs of threads in the holes from a ball puller might yield clues as to how the holes got there. 

I don't think the balls in question were deliberately hollow pointed to increase lethality (unless these pistols weren't actual duelers; just because they're a cased pair doesn't automatically make them duelers).    Pistols and the way they were loaded were to be as identical as
possible, and I can't imagine a duelist telling his second to see that the gun to be pointed at himself  was loaded to cause maximum damage.      These balls are another example of "If only these guns could talk."

[bluenoser]

The holes appear to be parallel sided.  If the balls had been pulled, I would expect the holes to taper to a point and have a raised area around the perimeter.

Laurie

[bluenoser]

Ok, I'm hooked and I'm supposed to be in here doing paperwork 

Perhaps all the balls have similar holes, and those are the only ones readily visible.  I can see two other balls with possible holes.  The more obvious is the ball to the left of the plate with the face on it.

Also, and I may be way off base here, the second item to the left of the note appears to be capable of making just such a hole - complete with a narrow flat area around the perimeter.

Gotta get back to the  paperwork

Laurie

[Daryl]

If you expand the picture some, note the slightly off-round hole, with the flash of lead on one side of it. This can happen when a screw is inserted into a ball.  If cast with the hole, there would not be that lead flash on one side, rather the plunger would make a perfect hole.

[smylee grouch]

Some of the balls look like they might have rifling imprints from through the patch. It might be that the non victor in the duel didnt get his shot off and they later pulled the ball. Pure speculation for sure.

[Standing Bear]

Tool number 3  counting from left looks to have a reduced diameter that would fit the holes. A short start maybe? ??
TC

[Dogshirt]

IF the hole were loaded DOWN, would it expand to fit the rifling better?

[frogwalking]

Each of the balls I have pulled had an extruded rim of lead around the holes where the puller screwed into them.  I do not see that on these balls.

[DaveP (UK)]

There is, or was until recent years, a well established use for lead balls with a hole through.
Perhaps the economical explanation is that due to a shortage the photographer had to improvise with...fishing weights

Is it possible to ask the chap who first posted the picture?

[SCLoyalist]

Is it possible to ask the chap who first posted the picture?

Dave, the pistols are in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich UK.   The photo and description appear on their website, which also says the guns are not currently on display.

BTW, I posted a query on the ML Association of Great Britain's forum, thinking a more authoritative answer on the holes might come from the other side of the pond, and 'fishing weights' was the only practical answer anyone could suggest (but doesn't seem likely to me that a Royal Navy Captain would keep fishing weights in a cased pistol set that eventually ended up in a museum).

BTW, the Museum description lists the guns as .75 caliber.   One response from MLAGB was that sounded unusually large.   I pulled the photo into photoshop and did some measuring, and either the pistols are about 20" long, or those balls are only about 50 cal.    Maybe they're .57 cal, and somebody transposed the digits.

I found an email address for the Museum for inquiries and sent the question to them.   I'm going to be surprised if I get much of an answer, but it won't hurt to try.


SCL

[Daryl]

I think I'll make some holes in some balls and publish a picture of those 'holy' balls with some antique pistols and see what the reaction is.

I think we're reading more into these 'balls' than is there.  A true dueling pistol was not rifled, but smooth bored.