BROWN OR BLUE?

[LIBERTY]

I'M ABOUT READY TO FINISH MY NEW HAWKEN AND I FIND SOME CONTROVERSY ON THE FINISH I SHOULD USE. BROWN OR BLUE. WHICH ONE GENTLEMEN? THANKS A BUNCH

[chipshot]

Hey Liberty
I recently stripped and browned the barrel and tang on my Investarms Hawken. I used Laurel Mt Forge browning and degreasing solution and found it very easy to use. I am no expert when it comes to this type of work but the LMF solution worked great and I am very pleased w/ the results.
Good luck with the project which ever way you decide to go.

[greybeard]

BROWN!!!

[Dan'l 1946]

 I vote for brown. But it is your rifle, which do you prefer?
                                                                     Dan

[frogwalking]

It is my understanding that in the 18th century, guns were browned, blued, and left armory bright.  I have a commercial rust blue solution that works great  and imparts a very durable, pleasing blue/black finish.  It does require a tank to boil the barrel, which everyone does not have access to.  I have used both brown and blue, I just prefer blue.  Do it the way you like best.

[Scout]

I think Hawken style rifles look better with browned barrels, mine are anyways.

Skip

[moleeyes36]

Frogwalking,

If I might ask, what is the brand of commercial rust blue that you use and where is it obtainable?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[David R. Pennington]

I've heard a section of house gutter with both ends closed on a camp stove will work to boil barrels in.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I rust blue the barrel and rib c/w thimbles, and case harden the rest of the parts.  It is my understanding that that is how they were originally done.

[Hungry Horse]

 My vote goes for rust bluing. I have used Dixie's solution in the past with good results. I have also used Birchwood Casey's plum brown, and simply boiled it in a galvanized chicken feeder, with the ends soldered up, over a two burner camp stove.The Birchwood Casey is almost like flat black, but can be carded back to a good blue gray. smooth polished metal is the trick for this finish.

               Hungry Horse

[frogwalking]

It is called American traditional rust blue.  Midway sells it.

[moleeyes36]

Thanks for all the info on rust bluing; I've never tried it.  I think I'm going to try rust blue on a pet project I started some time ago but never completed.  As soon as I finish the Bucks County Rifle I'm doing now, which will be soon, I'm going to take up that pet project again.  It's a half stock rifle in the general style of a Hawken rifle.  I've got all the parts laying around my gun room now including a very nice piece of curly maple and a 25 plus year old Green Mountain barrel.  The barrel is a .54 cal, 1 1/8 inches across the flats and has, as I recall, round bottom rifling.  It should make a good "Trans-Swamp Hog Homogenizer" for hunting in the heavy palmettos. 

[wilkie]

You might try some Brownells dicropan im bluing applied as a cold rust bluing, no boiling water.  I've used it for several years on guns and gun parts with good success.  Polish the way you want it, degrease it with lac thin or acetone, apply a coat of im, let set for a day, go over it with steel wool, then give it another coat.  If you don't get grease on it you don't need to degrease it again.  I use a toothbrush to apply a thin coat of bluing.  Usually takes about 4 to 6 coats on softer steel like barrels, maybe a couple more coats on harder steel.  After all the coats wait a couple of days then oil.  It doesn't take long to apply or very much to blue the part.  It seems to become more durable after a few weeks.  touchups can be done by degreasing and applying a couple of coats.  I've used this to touch up hot caustic bluing by steel wooling where it needs it, then applying a couple of coats of im.  Cannot tell the difference between old and new bluing. 

[doulos]

Has anybody ever tried a cold blue to finish a gun? Im curious about Brownells Oxpho Cold Blue.

[Acer Saccharum]

Cold blue rusts like crazy. Never ever use 44-40. Brownell's is better. But as a durable finish? no.

Rust blue is a lot of work, but it wears like iron and is rust-resistant. Looks more black than blue. I used Wahkon Bay's formula. Make sure you card with a fine bristle stainless wheel. Brownell's has the wheels with .003 dia bristles. Won't scuff or score the work.

Cold blue, not durable, but easy to do:


rust blue, durable, lots of work, but yummy:

[Dennis Glazener]

Brownells Oxpho Cold Blue

Yes I have used it several times. Seems to hold up fairly well but in my opinion it is not dark enough, move like a grayish blue. No way will it come close to matching factory blue, ask me how I know!
Dennis

[sweed]

Tom
That leaf carving (engraving)  sorry, on the tang looks surprisingly like work I used to do on leather belts, when I had my saddle shop. I don't know about all the tinney squiggly lines I see on most stuff, but  may be able to do something like that. What's it called, and what do I need to get educated on that?

[Herb]

I recently finished a copy of Jim Bridger's Hawken, and I asked Doc White at the old GRRW, who had the original in his shop for a couple of years where I saw it in 1978,  whether the barrel should be blued or browned.  He said browned, so I did it with Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown and Degreaser.  The Plug and tang were color cased (I guess that is the term) so I heat-blued  them on the barrel with a propane torch.  I have used Brownells Oxpho Blue to blue barrels, and it works good.  It is a thinner blue and wears off some, which is OK for some of us.  It is very easy to touch up if you want to do that.

[Herb]

My Jim Bridger Hawken on the left, with a "thin" browning of 8 coats of Laurel Mtn FBBD on the barrel.  Wanted it to look old.  2nd and 4th are Oxpho Blued barrels and heat blued locks.  Third is a LMF browned barrel and lock, couple thousand rounds through this by now.

The Bridger barrel and tang. I know the tang does not fit tight enough, have to work on that some more.  It was not a plug-tang set, but separate pieces.  Remember, I built it the way it looks now, with 170 or so years of wear.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Naturally, a builder can apply any finish they wish, and that's the way it should be.
Upon studying the images of Hawken rifles in Jim Gordon's great third volume, it seems to me that Hawken barrels originally were rust blued.  Over time, oxidation has corrupted the original colour, and some now appear to be browned.  Don Stith will perhaps confirm or refute this.

[Herb]

Doc White told me he has handled 32 original Hawkens, and shot three of them.  This includes the Bridger Hawken.  I trust he knows blue from brown.

[Herb]

I should clarify that I am speaking only of the Bridger Hawken.