"Persimmon" for a full stock Poor Boy?

[bedbugbilly]

New here so hope I'm posting this in the right spot.

I haven't built any rifles for a long time and finally have some time to do some.  I have always wanted to make a "Poor Boy" or a "Barn Gun" as I live the simplicity of them.  While I'm waiting on parts for my Bedford build, I thought I would get started on the poor boy.  I have tried to look at as many photos of these guns as I can - all seem to be different.  Here's what I have.

13/16" octagon Green Mountain - 42" in .40 cal.
L & R lock - new - I believe it is the "Leman" lock (most of my supplies such as locks, triggers, etc. are at my hime in Arizona - I summer in Michigan and of course, didn't bring anything back with me.   )

I'll make the ramrod pipes, side plate, etc. out of steel.  I've read the tutorial on forging triggers so want to give that a try as well as making the trigger-guard.

My question is on the stock.  A number of years ago when I was at Friendship, I bouth two stock blanks from a fellow who I believe was from Tennessee - they are "Persimmon" (known by many names such as American Ebony, etc.).  These are nice straight grained blanks but I've never worked with Persimmon.  I have worked with many hardwood species when I had my custom millwork/cabinet shop but never this species.  From what I'm reading, it machines and works well and mine seem to be a might bit softer than hard maple but not much.

So . . . has anyone ever used Persimmon for a gun stock?  If so . . . your thoughts?  Also, would this be appropriate to use on a Poor Boy?

One of the blanks has the but bandsawed in a buttplate curve - why I don't know as there is nothing inletted.  I have laid it out though and I think it will work fine for what I want (no butt plate) and I can get adequate length of pull.

Also . . on a Poor Boy/Barn Gun . . . . just when do you know when to stop as far as "craftsmanship" in regards to making it a "working man's gun" and not go to far in regards to making it look like a "fine rifle"?  The photos I've been looking at seem to be shaped (stock) in proportion but not a lot of extra work such as moulding along the ramrod groove, etc.  Would a poured nosecap be appropriate or should it just be left wood and shaped?

This will not be a copy of any particular rifle but I want it to be a decent interpretation of a Poor Boy/Barn Gun. 

By the way, the Persimmon is light in color so I was going to experiment with some natural stains and probably finish in boiled linseed oil.  Haven't decided on the metal finish yet but thinking I might just let it "age" on its own - thoughts?

Thank you.   

[Dennis Glazener]

I am pretty sure that I once saw photos of a rifle that was made from Persimmon wood but for the life of me I can not remember where. If I remember correctly is was a southern style mountain rifle and the wood looks pretty plain with a amber color to it.

I suggest you make one and give us feedback on what you think of it. I would love to try one but I have never seen but one persimmon tree that was large enough for a decent blank and that was in a friends back yard. He said that persimmon tree had been mentioned by his ancestor dating back to the early 1800's. No way would he cut it!
Dennis

[eddillon]

got an old wood driver and #3 wood.  Heads are persimmon wood

[okawbow]

I've used persimmon for bow handles. It works similar to walnut. I have some that is dark brown throughout the whole board. I use it for violin finger boards and fittings. They used to make golf club heads from persimmon.

I know of a woodlot in southern Illinois that has many tall and straight persimmon trees that would make good sized logs. Most persimmon trees have some rot in the center of the log. Around this area, the wood is often as black as ebony.

[Maalsral]

I believe Ian Pratt made a rifle out of persimmon.

[art riser]

Ian's rifle is on the blog...

[Tim Crosby]

 Here is Ian’s example, a Beauty: http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/search?q=persimmon

   Tim C.

[JDK]

Also, on page 13 of Kentucky Rifles & Pistols 1750-1850 there is a Stophil Long that is claimed to be stocked in persimmon.  Pictures are black & white, of course, but the gun's held up nicely for 200 years.  Enjoy, J.D.

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you all!

When I ran across these stock blanks, I did a double take as I'd never seen any before.  If I remember right, I paid about $30 to $35 a piece for them  and I snapped them up because I'd never seen any.  Both are about 12/4 surfaced and fairly on the light side.  In researching the species, I also ran across the comments that trees that were large enough to get decent dimension and boards out of were hard to come by.

I'll give this blank a try and keep you posted.  It appears to be hard but my guess was that it would work about like softer maple or walnut.  The other blank I'm saving for a Bean style - I have a 3/4" X 42 barrel in .36 set aside for that one.  My only regret is that I don't have a nice set of Myron Carlson's hand forged Bean furniture for it.  I always enjoyed seeing his work at Friendship and visiting with him - I used a set of his furniture on a Virginia style rifle quite a few years ago.  I made the mistake of displaying the rifle at a gun show and a guy made an offer that I couldn't refuse.  I wish I had it now as Myron gave me a lot of advice on it when I bought the furniture.

Thanks again and I appreciate the link.  With the blank I'm going to use having the butt bandsawed with a curve already - still can't figure out why on earth they did it - it will make a good one to try a Poor Boy on.  Thanks for your input - greatly appreciated!

As an after thought - it this blank wasn't going to work, I was going to use a straight grained hard maple blank that I bought over 45 years ago from Dixie GW.  At that time, the blanks cost a whopping $6.00 each - no, that isn't a misprint.  Dixie ran a special on them and sold three for $6.00.  I ordered three of them and you should have seen the expression on the Post Master's face when they came in.  Two were banded together along with the third one - full stock blanks with a shipping label stapled on the butt.  I better shut up now as i'm dating myself!   

[G-Man]

The earliest known specific reference to an iron mounted American longrifle -  January 1776 - advertisement in the Virginia Gazette, posted by Col., William Campbell regading a rifle lost or stolen from one of his troops: while in WiIliamsburg:

“… a rifle gun, her stock made of persimmon tree, iron mounted, has a pistol lock, the box
lid lost, and the bore very small.”

With regard to moldings, etc. there is no hard and fast set of rules for plain Appalachian style rifles - they put as much decoration or effort into them as the customer wanted to pay for I suspect.  But in general - good architectural lines, long heavy barrels (modern builders usually skip this part to make a more manageable rifle), no moldings except usually on the cheekpiece (not always but they had at least one or two more often than not).  Nosecaps run the gamut - absent, two piece brazed iron, to simple brass or iron single reinforcing bands (helps minimize splitting), to poured nosecaps, although most poured nosecaps that I have seen (again, not al - some were original to the rifles) were added after the barrel was cut and the original nosecap discarded.

Good luck and have fun!

Guy