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Author Topic: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!  (Read 16813 times)

caliber45

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2009, 02:50:01 AM »
Probably already mentioned here, but isn't all steel (assuming everything involved is steel) subject to annealing? And aren't barrels soft (annealed) steel? Isn't it possible to just heat the problem area with a small-tip welding torch or even MAPP gas flame to bright red, and then allow it to cool? Drill out the now-soft offending parts, tap for an oversize vent, and go from there? Maybe I'm missing something . . . Usually am. Sorry if that's the case. - paulallen
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2009, 05:40:07 AM »
Acid doesn't have much effect on stainless steel.
 I don't know what is in pool acid. Probably muriatic or phosphoric acid. If I didn't have nitric acid or ferric chloride, I would heat the barrel. What kind of gun is it? If you had a tig welder you could heat the easy out up and take the temper out of it. You could try that with a torch and a real small tip.
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J.D.

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2009, 05:56:03 AM »
Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid. A weak solution of muriatic acid is used for pool maintenance, so it may take a while to affect the steel, but it should work...in time. 
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2009, 07:56:42 AM »
Jerry,

It's a custom Lancaster, with a Colerain barrel.  Whoever built it decided to move the touch hole back into the breech plug.  In the process, used a stainless bolt for a touch hole.

It was really slow going off, so I  thought I'd put a white lightning liner in.  That's what got me this far.  I guess I can try to heat up the easy out, see if I can soften it some.

I guess the next step is the nitric acid.  If I can find some.

Thanks.
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Buffler Razz

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2009, 03:22:15 PM »
Do not use pool acid. It is typically 34% hydrochloric acid, aka muriatic acid, and is highly agressive towards steel. While its effect on stainless is not as fast, it will assuredly bugger up any mild steel it contacts.
Razz
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2009, 04:14:10 PM »
Buffler,

isn't that kinda the idea??
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Offline Brian Jordan

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2009, 05:10:16 PM »
I think he is meaning to be careful to keep the acid off the barrel material.
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Offline KentSmith

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2009, 08:49:12 PM »
Assuming all us "experts" give you advice that works - what is your next step. 

Sounds like the vent is too far back if it is in the plug or is it at the front oart of the plug?  Either way it needs to move forward.  That being the case what about the lock?  Or will you try to shorten the plug?  How much?  Or move the vent forward and the barrel back?  Will be interested in how this ends up.  Please keep us informed as we are all just one gun away from the same predicament.

I'm not the expert here but sounds like some serious mods are in store for this gun.
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Offline rick landes

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2009, 09:38:13 PM »
If the liner is large enough.. we find good success TIG welding a bolt, hex or allen head, on and using the bolt as a way to twist out small broken studs. The heat from the TIG will usually help. Go slow with small spot welds with a good gas shield.
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Buffler Razz

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2009, 01:53:58 AM »
Smallpatch
The rate at which the acid will attack the steel varies especially given the different grades you have in this issue. Were it my gun I would look to a mechanical solution to the problem as opposed to chemical. I have 20+ years of experience in the maunfacture & handling of industrial acids, including muriatic and sulfuric. I've seen what is does to steel and other metals. If it were my gun I would not chance it. Just my 2 cents worth. I am curious as to the final outcome here and wish you well with the problem.
Razz
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2009, 03:01:14 AM »
Buffler,

I agree with what you're saying.

I'm really torn though, deciding what to do.

I may just end up cutting the barrel off, re-breeching it, and using foranother project.

Then just buy another barrel for this one.

I've really considered, buying end mills, center drills, etc., but what if that doesn't work, or I do more damage in the process.  I'm out a couple of hundred dollars worth of tools, and still not got a solution.

Any way, I'll keep everyone posted.  Thanks so much for all your help and suggestions.
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2009, 04:29:48 AM »
Don't cut the barrel off.
        I use the strongest acids on a regular basis for cutting out background on engraving and etching different designs. Ferric chloride and nitric are the most active on steel. Neither one is very active on stainless. Any acid can be blocked off with lacquer, bees wax, shellack or fingernail polish.   
   The only thing the acid will help you with is the easy out. It will not cut the stainless liner.
  If you don't have any acid. I suggest you do what Dpharris suggested. Heat that thing up and anneal the end of the barrel. It won't hurt a thing. Then do the Dpharris trick.  I'm sure he has remover a few dozen like that.  I have done the same thing he suggested . It works. Don't be affraid. Just heat it up and let it cool slow.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 04:33:26 AM by jerrywh »
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Offline KentSmith

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2009, 06:29:18 AM »
What I'd ask myself is - why was the ignition slow to begin with?  Where was the vent in relation to the plug?  Can you tell?  Can that situation be fixed and how after you get out of your current predicament?  I mean I'd hate for you to get the easy out out and then get the vent liner out only to discover that you're buried in the plug with ignition problems remaining even after the white lightning liner is in. 

I'll butt out - just don't see the sense in throwing good money after bad.  That didn't come out right.
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2009, 08:10:38 AM »
I GOT IT!!!

OK, I thought, the metal is too hard to drill out without harder tools.  BUT, even the hardest steel can be ground away with an abrasive.

I to a small cylindrical stone on a dremel, ground a hole down till I could see the notches on the easy out, then just tapped it out.

Then took progressively larger bits, 1/64th at a time, and drilled out the liner, on the last one, the whole thing just spun out.

Hopefully, I haven't destroyed the integrity of the hole, and can retread.

The next issue, is that the breechplug, splits the liner right in the middle.  Lots of fouling still in there.  Will probably replace the plug, and try to figure a better way to install the new liner. (i.e. groove the plug, or some such).

(At least I think I saved the barrel.

Thanks for all your responses, now any ideas on the new liner???
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2009, 12:19:00 AM »
OK guys,

I did it.  I installed a new White Lightnin liner.  Recessed the face of the existing plug, bore size, to the depth of the rear of the touch hole, and put it all back together

Works like a dream, ran a patch (a little sharp edge), and a breech plug scraper.  This should fix that bad boy, and make it go off like a champ.


Thanks, Thanks, Thanks for everyones help and advice. ;) ;D 8) :-*

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bs2

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Re: H-E-L-L-L-L-P!!!
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2009, 12:43:21 AM »
I was about to tell you to send it to me!.....................remember that I said .....about. ;D

Glad to hear the good news!
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