Author Topic: Forge help  (Read 7338 times)

Offline cmac

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Forge help
« on: July 30, 2013, 03:50:37 PM »
I don't know if this is the correct place for this post so feel free to move.

I acquired these forge parts recently and I'm wondering if they are a set or mixed parts. The smaller part of the pan is my main concern. I found one image online that shows the smaller set in from the top. Mounted under or over it doesn't seem right. I have another blower as well.  Any help would be greatly appreciated
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 03:52:40 PM by cmac »

Offline tallbear

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 04:05:47 PM »
The firepot(smaller one) should be installed in the forge(larger one) from the top.It is not unusual for the fire pot to burn out and have to be replaced and some modifications need to be made.It would also seem that your fire pot is missing the clinker breaker ash dump.Check out Centaur Forge they have some spare parts Link;http://www.centaurforge.com/

Mitch

Offline cmac

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2013, 04:17:08 PM »
The fire pot sits up on the lip shown in the 2nd photo an inch or better: leaves a large gap

Offline tallbear

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 04:23:56 PM »
Just put some iron bars in there to fill the space and support the fire pot and fill the forge around the fire pot  with coal .It will be fine.You can modify the forge but then you run the risk of your next fire pot not fitting(they can and do burn out over time.The other choice is find a fire pot that fits perfectly but that can sometimes be difficult or expensive.

Mitch

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2013, 04:29:57 PM »
The firepot(smaller one) should be installed in the forge(larger one) from the top.It is not unusual for the fire pot to burn out and have to be replaced and some modifications need to be made.It would also seem that your fire pot is missing the clinker breaker ash dump.Check out Centaur Forge they have some spare parts Link;http://www.centaurforge.com/

Mitch

.........that's a nifty site......thanks!

Offline cmac

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2013, 04:40:58 PM »
Ok thanks. I thought the firepot would go on top. What about a tuyere? All I can find are round ones

Offline tallbear

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2013, 05:19:55 PM »
If you have a clinker breaker properly set up you don't need one.A tuyere would keep the clinker breaker from doing it's job.If you don't have a clinker breaker you need to manually break up the clinkers and force them through the tuyere.If you decide to go that way a tuyere is easy to make it's just a plate with holes drilled in it.

Mitch

Offline RAT

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 05:52:00 PM »
I'd give my wisdom teeth for a hand cranked blower in good shape. I haven't been able to find one in my area (I don't buy things over the internet). I've been looking for a couple of years. Seems like the only thing you can order new (i.e. centaur forge and others) is electric. I'd love to be able to switch to a coal forge. Right now I'm using a small propane forge. It's impossible to control the heat (everything gets hot).
Bob

Offline tallbear

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 06:28:18 PM »
Quote
I'd give my wisdom teeth for a hand cranked blower in good shape.

PM sent :)

Mitch

Old Bob

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 07:11:00 PM »
You have all the parts you need there except for the clinker breaker and dump gate and they can be easily made. That's a Vulcan style firepot tuyere. Like was said earlier, the pot goes down through the top. The tuyere which is fastened to the blower in the picture bolts to the bottom of the pot. It appears that the stud bolts are broken off of the pot. If the flange on the tuyere is sound, you may be able to simply drill holes in the bottom of the pot and bolt it on. If not, you'll need to grind the rust off of both pieces and braze them together. Don't forget that you need to install the breaker between them first. The rod fits in the grooves in both the flange and the pot. The breaker itself can be made of round stock, (cast iron if possible) with about a one inch hole or just a little bigger through it. If this piece is ground to a roughly triangular shape it will easily break up clinkers.Drill or weld (or braze) a rod to it. One end should be made long enough to stick out from the forge far enough so that you can reach it. That end will be bent into an L shape. Weld the other rod opposite and on the same axis. The one on my forge is nearly round, but the rods are offset giving it a cam action. As for the blower, if it's not working, take it apart and see what the problem is. I've seen old grease freeze one up along with mouse nests and rust. Give it a good cleaning. You might have to replace a bushing or two or weld some teeth on a gear or two, but it's not that big a job. You'll save a heap of money if you can. Same with the firepot. I've bought products from Centaur Forge and they are very good to buy from, but they like their stuff a lot. Last time I saw a Vulcan firepot in their catalogue it was $250 and I'm sure it's higher now. Another thing I did once to repair a Vulcan was to make a tuyere out of 2" sch. 40 pipe. Put a Tee in the middle with a reducer (stuck a 3" stove pipe in the big end), run a piece down a few inches and hooked the ash dump gate to it. I threaded a heavy 2" screw on flange to the upper piece after I run the pipe through the bottom of the pot. Covered the flange with refractory cement and made a grate out of a fuel cell baffle from a missile (hey, it's all I had). I'd recommend a cast iron grate. The problem with this setup is that it spreads the fire more and you can't clear clinkers without tearing the fire up. And you can't get as deep a fire. You want to have a deep fire. It's funny that his post came up now. I just finished brazing my pot and tuyere back together. It had been brazed only where the stud bolts had been and years of use, heat and moisture had weakened the joints. It's got a more substantial braze this time.  By the way, it looks like your dump gate is simply a plate with a boss with a hole drilled in it. Bolt it to the bottom of the tuyere and it simply slides open. You might want to weld a handle to it so you can open it easily. Many old ones just have short projection and if it gets a little rusty or jammed with cinders it can be a pain to deal with. A little windy, but may help you save some money.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 07:19:21 PM »
Cmac;
 
  You gotta remember you're not building a watch here. The frontier forges were often built from natural rocks, and clay. So shimming, and fitting, and making do, is all part of the game. The advise, about not boxing yourself in, by making something, you may not be able to get an exact replacement for, irreversible, is sage advice. Been there done that.
 Cruise the yard sales, and focus on anything cast iron. fire pots have been made from cast iron bells off of antique car banjo rear ends,( often cut off in the old days to make jack stands). Hibachi grills make good grates, and a small cast iron Hibachi makes a pretty good fire pot. Broken up old coal stoves, and fireboxes out of diesel furnaces can be utilized as well. Most of this stuff can be had for nearly nothing.

                    Hungry Horse

                      

Offline DutchGramps

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 11:09:22 PM »
A bit off topic, but still a forge-related question: I have a 50 lbs anvil that my son-in-law is going to use. What is the height of the top for somebody 6'4" ?
Real bikes are kick-started....

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2013, 11:48:52 PM »
I think someone told me the height of your elbow roughly?
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Offline Joe Schell

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2013, 12:16:21 AM »
Let your arm hang down by your side and make a fist, the face of your anvil should be about touching your fist. If your anvil is too high it makes it hard to get full power blows with the hammer & it will wear you out.

Old Bob

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2013, 01:44:10 AM »
Right. Some old smiths said that the second joint of the fingers should rub the anvil. That's how I have mine.

jimtucker2

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2013, 04:13:25 AM »
I like the top of my anvil even with my wrist...too low and you bend over too much...sore back!  You should look for some
tutorial info at ABANA.org, and at Anvilfire.   Depending on your location, you may have a regional blacksmith's organization
with guy who are very willing to help you.   The blower that you have is one of the best (when you get it cleaned up), and
you can use furnace cement to fill the gaps around the firepot when you put it into the forge pan.  You have the makings of
a really nice coal forge.  Good luck, Jim

whetrock

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2013, 05:45:37 AM »
A bit off topic, but still a forge-related question: I have a 50 lbs anvil that my son-in-law is going to use. What is the height of the top for somebody 6'4" ?

You may know this stuff already, but here's a few tips.

You will need a good stump to sit it on if it is to be really useful. You can trim the stump sqare enough (bottom end) with a chain saw (then use wedges to level it if it is to sit on a cement floor). (In the old days they were big posts planted into the dirt floor.) Once you decide on the height, you can then cut the stump accordingly, then use the chainsaw to grind away any spots necessary until the anvil will sit level. You will also want to anchor it to the top of the post.

I'll also mention ear protection. The anvil can give you some permanent hearing damage pretty quickly if you don't protect your ears.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 10:37:35 PM by Whetrock (PLB) »

Offline RAT

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2013, 05:00:44 PM »
Mitch... I sent you a PM response (my first). Let me know if you don't get it and I'll send you a traditional email.

I have a 150lb anvil mounted to dimensional treated lumber that I stacked and bolted together. The anvil is held on with staples... actually "U" bolts that I filed the threads off to make into spikes. I bought the anvil used and it's in rough shape (rounded edges and a dished face). I've kept it outside because I don't have room in the garage where the forge is kept. I use a hand truck to move it... but it ain't easy. If I can get a coal forge up and running I plan to leave everything set up for use outside.

Doing what you can with what you got...
Bob

Offline RAT

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Re: Forge help
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2013, 06:39:20 PM »
Mitch... I sent you another message.
Bob