Author Topic: Antique Swivel (Read 10253 times)

Avlrc · « **on:** September 04, 2013, 07:04:33 PM »

Real nice Swivel.
http://www.flayderman.com/#handguns

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2013, 07:47:09 PM »

Thanks for posting. Very nice rifle. I've loved these flint swivels ever since I saw a slender
Lehigh with the lady liberty on it. I'd love to share photos but I don't have permission.

realtorone · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2013, 12:03:33 AM »

Beautiful Rifle.Only the second one I've seen a picture of with the locking lever opposite the lockplate. My 50 caliber swivel has the same type locking lever.Both my barrels are deep rifled and mine was orig ionally flint and has brass side panels.The other one I have seen in print is on page 41 of the PEACEMAKERS by R.L.Wilson and is marked P K and attributed to Peter Kunz.
George

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2013, 08:06:20 PM »

By George we must be the only guys who like swivels. BTW it is apparently sold as per Victoria.

realtorone · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2013, 11:21:58 PM »

At 75 I've only owned mine about 10 years and it was the only one I ever found I could afford,but I've always loved them.I think I fell in love with the swivel concept when I would watch Don King building one in Wichita Kansas in 1970.Dan has shown the picture of it or one like it several times on this forum.
Ma be you and I can luck into some more since no one else appears to like them.Best of luck
George

jdm · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2013, 11:59:11 PM »

I like em too! Take a look at the Boyer swivel in the library.

JTR · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2013, 02:05:39 AM »

And I like em too! I have a couple, with a Nicolas Hawk in the library.
I just didn't have anything one way or another to say about the Flayderman one.
John

mr. no gold · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2013, 04:37:24 AM »

Guess that there are few of us that like these old things. I have a J. Hillegas swivel breech rifle, full stocked with wood panels on the barrel, as well. It has the same type of lock release lever on the counterplate that this one has. Mine however is an original percussion which curiously has patent breeches. I have seen one other Hillegas which was flintlock, but a very plain gun. The one on my wall has a number of silver inlays and very a fancy patchbox, with nice wood. These guns tend to be a bit pricey and I have seen only a few in my years of collecting. Thank you for calling out attention to the one on Flayderman's website.
Most of these seem to have been made in Berks County with some showing up in other areas only infrequently.
Dick

Buck · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2013, 05:29:24 AM »

I have one also, Original flint, full paneled, incised carved and has the original ramrod. It appears to be a early upper susquehana, a Gentleman at the KRA thought it was an early Samuel Baum Sr. I am not sure who it was produced by, but it's a good honest gun and I like them also.
Buck

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2013, 02:27:35 PM »

Just finished reading That dark and bloody river and there was reference to one of the Wetzels carrying one or maybe it was somebody else but it was in the 1785 to 95 period. Bet he was glad to have that extra shot. Off to the local antique fair. Rob

Curtis · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2013, 08:20:23 PM »

Shreckmiester, not to change the subject but I just picked up a copy of That Dark and Bloody River.... is it as good as I think it will be?

Curtis

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2013, 09:04:54 PM »

Curtis, It's good and does a nice job of letting you know what was happening in the Ohio Valley during
that period and talks about the people who opened the frontier and the Indians who fought to keep it.
I thought he could have fleshed out the day to day lives of these people a little more to make you get
a visual of what it was like. It seemed a bit repetitive in themes, but if I had it to read over again I would.
I thought he did a pretty good job of describing the actual conflicts and the brutality of it, but it did lack
something. I guess he never got deep enough into most of the characters for me. Of course, I am a
Steinbeck fan and that's the kind of visualization I like in a good story. I want to feel like I'm in it.
Overall, I liked it a lot. It's as good as the Frontiersman if you liked that.

Frank Graves · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2013, 09:37:20 PM »

Is there any substantial information on the maker of this rifle - Thomas Hess - out there somewhere? I find very little.

Thanks,

Frank

mr. no gold · « **Reply #13 on:** September 08, 2013, 12:47:00 AM »

The Hess family is known for being a family of gunsmiths for a long time. They were in the so called Allemangel area that included parts of Berks and Lehigh Counties for the most part. They crafted fine guns but few seem to have much ornamentation. They mostly seemed to use a two piece patchbox and the Roman nose stock profile. I don't have one of their rifles but wish I did. This gun is the best Hess rifle I have ever seen. Someone here should buy it because it is a swivel, it is a Hess, and it has a lot of inlays, nice ones at that.
Dick

jdm · « **Reply #14 on:** September 08, 2013, 08:56:11 PM »

In the book " Selected Articles From The K.R.A. Bulletin" There are two articles on the Hess family of gunsmiths. One by Ron Gabel the other by Tim Lubenesky.
I always felt like full paneled swivels were a rare thing when compared to the single barrel Kentucky's. I think they are a wonderful piece of workmanship.

Frank Graves · « **Reply #15 on:** September 08, 2013, 09:46:13 PM »

Thanks - I will see if I can locate these. I'd appreciate knowing the dates of these articles originally published in the K.R.A. Bulletin if you or anyone knows that offhand.

I bought this rifle, in fact decided to do so just before when this topic first appeared here. I had spoken to Norm about it several years ago but couldn't make a deal at that time. I am really interested in learning about this maker and will share anything that I can find in this forum.

Frank

Avlrc · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2013, 11:32:45 PM »

Quote from: Frank Graves on September 08, 2013, 09:46:13 PM

Thanks - I will see if I can locate these. I'd appreciate knowing the dates of these articles originally published in the K.R.A. Bulletin if you or anyone knows that offhand.

I bought this rifle, in fact decided to do so just before when this topic first appeared here. I had spoken to Norm about it several years ago but couldn't make a deal at that time. I am really interested in learning about this maker and will share anything that I can find in this forum.

Frank

Congratulations on a fine acquisition !

jdm · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2013, 11:47:28 PM »

Frank, Congratulations. You have a very fine rifle. It will make the other kids drool.

The article by Tim Lubenesky is in Vol.27,No.2 " The Allemeangel Gunsmiths" The Hess family of gunsmiths revisited. It is the most extensive. Tim is quite knowledgeable about the Hess family.
If you have trouble tracking it down send me a P M maybe I can be of some assistance.

Buck · « **Reply #18 on:** September 09, 2013, 12:19:48 AM »

Frank,
Congratulations, that's a great rifle. Good swivels are a rarity right Jim.
Buck

realtorone · « **Reply #19 on:** September 09, 2013, 01:09:31 AM »

Frank
Beautiful rifle.Wish it was mine

Frank Graves · « **Reply #20 on:** September 09, 2013, 04:34:22 AM »

I really appreciate everyone's kind words and offers of help. Hopefully I'll learn some new things about Hess and be able to report them here.

Frank

Hawken62_flint · « **Reply #21 on:** September 11, 2013, 11:42:26 PM »

About 6 or 8 months ago, on eBay, I bought a picture of this swivel breech rifle. It is overlaid over an original painting or print of some hunters and canoes and a hound. It has to be this rifle, but is appears as a left-handed rifle in the picture and that is why I bought the print. I have it framed and sitting on a small table in my office and look at it almost every day--love the swivel breeches. The print I purchased was done by Allagash Traders in 2009. Probably turned the negative over and made it look left handed, but it is the exact patchbox, inlay in front of box, etc. What a great rifle !!!

Buck · « **Reply #22 on:** September 12, 2013, 12:14:04 AM »

I thought I saw the same rifle in a recent article my neighbor gave me, Maybe a NRA article.
Buck

Buck · « **Reply #23 on:** September 12, 2013, 03:53:17 AM »

In American Rifleman (NRA magazine) I believe this same rifle is pictured on pages 66-67. It states it was part of the NRA Firearms museum. Great rifle congrats again.
Buck

Frank Graves · « **Reply #24 on:** September 12, 2013, 04:54:07 PM »

Thanks for these notices. Norm Flayderman owned this for years - it is the one that has been pictured in his Guide to Antique American Firearms as an example of Double Barrel Kentucky Rifles, so maybe the one at the NRA Museum is another one or Norm loaned it to them for a while. I cannot find my current American Rifleman magazine to look at the picture, but I will. And I will also see if I can find something on the internet about the Allagash Traders print that you have Hawken62 to see if maybe they borrowed a picture for the print that you have.

Some interesting things not noted before about this rifle: there is a Masonic compass and square engraved on the lock, there is a neat brass engraved inlay over the entire comb of the stock, the frizzens have been struck only once or twice and the rifled bore is very sharp at the muzzle. I am thinking that this might have been the maker's rifle, or I guess it could be one that he couldn't sell, but to me it is very uncommon that it would have been used so little. Had to have been an expensive rifle. The ramrod, with iron worm and horn tip I believe is original to this rifle.

I'll get some better pictures together and submit it for the Virtual Museum soon.

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Author Topic: Antique Swivel (Read 10253 times)

realtorone

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