I know this is a long shot, but I was wondering if anybody on the forum was familiar with a rifle builder that used this makers mark?
The turtle makers mark can be found stamped on the top and bottom flats of the barrel, on the inside of the lock plate, and as an ivory-like inlay on the bottom of the butt stock between the toe plate and trigger guard. Since a couple of the turtle stamps are hidden, I doubt that they are purely decorative. They seem more like makers mark to me.
This is the rifle that bears the turtle makers mark. It was built from a Green River Rifle Works kit of their Leman Indian Rifle.
It has a Ron Long flintlock and the standard GRRW Leman brass furniture and other parts except for the rear sight and under lugs.
I'm guessing that this rifle was built in the mid to late 1970's. The GRRW Leman Indian Rifle pattern was designed by Phil “Blue Jacket” Sanders while he worked for GRRW. He copied an original full stock Leman in Dr. Gary White's collection. The original concept or prototype rifle that Blue Jacket built resurfaced recently in Vernal, Utah, but that's another story. GRRW sold finished Leman Indian Rifles and kits from 1974 to 1980. It is obviously a kit gun because there are no factory markings or serial number. But is was assembled by an experienced, and possibly professional, builder as the quality of the fit and finish rivals the GRRW factory finished rifles.
In my copy of GRRW's 1979 price list, they offered two versions of kits for the Leman Indian Rifle (1) was the Standard Kit that came with a completely shaped and 98% pre-inletted stock, and (2) a Custom Kit that the customer could order variations in barrel size, stock shape, length of pull, etc. The stock is only partially shaped with ramrod hole drilled and barrel channel cut, while the forestock is left square with only rough shaping from lock panels back to butt.
Back in 1979, I ordered and assembled one the Standard Kits for the Leman Indian Rifle. I believe the subject rifle was built from a Custom Kit. Its barrel is 1” longer the the Standard Kit barrel length of 1-1/16” x 30”. It also has more drop in the stock, and the stock has more curve from the beginning of the wrist to the end of the butt than the straight Lancaster lines of my Standard Kit rifle.
A comparison of my Standard Kit rifle and subject rifle.
The particulars of the turtle Leman are:
.62 caliber, rifled
Barrel is 1-1/16” x 31”
Overall length is 47-1/2”
Ron Long Flintlock
Maple stock with some curl
Dark brown stain, possibly aqua fortis
Oil finish
When I purchased this rifle from a dealer at a local gun show, I was told it was built by a Bill Lloyd from Nebraska. I found a William C. Loyd listed as a member of the Contemporary Longrifle Association. I contacted him and sent him pictures of my rifle, but he said it wasn't one of his, so might be another Bill Lloyd or someone else.
As you can tell from the pictures, this rifle was built by an experienced builder. The inletting is excellent, and the lines are pleasing to the eye, even though they deviate from the classic Lancaster lines of most H. E. Leman rifles. The turtle Leman is definitely slimmer and sleeker looking than the Leman I assembled. The person that built it knew what he was doing.
Phil Meek
