TOW knife kit blade question

[C. Cash]

Had their Cumberland Rifleman's knife for a short time but it got away from me.  I really like the feel and heft of it and want to get the kit from TOW.  What is your opinion of the blade quality on these knives?  They are Solingen made from what I understand, but know those are from a variety of sources there.  Has any one here used one enough to have an opinion on them?

[Artificer]

Cash,

I have personally never owned one of these blades or kits because the style is "too late" for any historical impression I've ever done.  However, I had a buddy who owned one and he could sharpen a blade and said it sharpened well.  However, because of its size, he never actually used it that much so even he could not answer a question on how well the edge would hold up. 

I've made a few of the other style Solingen blades readily available from the market into knives over the years, though.  I used a four inch Solingen blade and hafted it with a decent size spike from my Dad's spike buck, then made a scabbard and presented it to him.  Since at our hunt club, many of us helped skin and butcher deer we or other club members shot, we got some good idea on how long an edge would last.  I asked Dad a couple years later how he liked the knife and he related it did not hold an edge well.  After I asked him to look at it, THAT'S when I found out after four decades that Dad didn't really know how to sharpen a knife and it was as dull as it could be.  So I sharpened it and used it. 

Normally two of us worked on skinning a deer at a time at our club.  I found that by the time we got to the second or third deer, that the edge needed "touching up."  So I would rate that blade as "good" but not great.  However, it did not cost what a "great" blade cost then.   I'm also not sure how it would have compared to an original and common blade like an original trade knife, though I suspect it is as good quality as most of those original trade knife blades were.

Gus

   

[Chuck Burrows]

I have used a bunch of the Solingen carbon blades over the last 50 years, including the style you mention, and I would rate them as very good.

As for how they rate compared to period blades - well based on actual scientific testing of over 40 period blades (dating from the late 1700's to the 1850's) - tests included the actual content of the blade material (carbon amount and such things as sulphur, phosphorous, etc) and RC hardness.
Carbon ranged from .5% to .9%, hardness was between 45RC and 55RC, soft by modern standards where most good knives are in the 58-62 range usually file hard or harder. While I never RC tested one of the Solingen blade simpler test such as testing with a file (they make files just for this) they have all passed. The idea of a knife that has to have edge holding abilities far beyond what I consider the period  norm is one I have had to work with customers with since period blades do not meet the modern standards and I only use the 10XX series of steel (my favorite is 1084 from the New Jersey Steel Baron and is just a hair's breadth away from the eutectoid point) which are simple carbon steels that are the closest thing commercially available to the pre-1850 blade steels. I also use old scrap steels, but if you don't have experience with scrap it can become a nightmare/waste of effort. For me anyway when trying to re-create the conditions our ancestors is based on using as close to the materials used then as possible, so using a modern steel hardened to modern standards is not for me. As always others mileage WILL vary....
As for the edge holding ability of modern blades most use steel above .90% and are almost all are alloyed steels such as 01, 52100. While the 10xx series, 1095 is close to period steels and can give better edge holding ability. But due to it's low magnesium content, is much harder to heat treat PROPERLY using simple tools. It needs to soak at temp for a bit and then you only have .6 second to drop below the nose in order to heat treat properly - if not done properly there is really no advantage over say 1084 which has much higher magnesium content and heat treats wonderfully using simple tools.

[necchi]

The idea of a knife that has to have edge holding abilities far beyond what I consider the period  norm,,,,

Exactly.
I guess I'm Old School, I'm more concerned with a blades ability to be sharpened than one that "holds" it's edge.
I'm not saying a blade should be so soft that it looses an edge within a few cut's but the modern standard makes blades so hard they need power tools to sharpen.

[Elnathan]

As for how they rate compared to period blades - well based on actual scientific testing of over 40 period blades (dating from the late 1700's to the 1850's) - tests included the actual content of the blade material (carbon amount and such things as sulphur, phosphorous, etc) and RC hardness.
Carbon ranged from .5% to .9%, hardness was between 45RC and 55RC, soft by modern standards where most good knives are in the 58-62 range usually file hard or harder.

Have these tests been published? I'd like to know more.

[Chuck Burrows]

Unfortunately no they have not - I had them done myself back in the early 1970's and lost most of that stuff in a couple of moves.

I do have one given to me by a friend that he had done and I compared it to a comparable 10XX series steel 1070

Carbon 0.67
Manganese 0.03
Phosphorous 0.035
Sulphur 0.001
Silicon 0.03
Copper 0.30
Nickel 0.01


Modern 1070
Carbon  .69
Manganese .40
Phosphorous .020 max
Sulphur .025 Max
Silicon .030

[C. Cash]

Wonderful info guys...thank you so much for the detailed responses.  Many points that I had not considered.  I would probably carry a smaller knife as a skinner and use it as a defensive-survival knife.  Still, would like to have the edge hold up for general cutting chores and light splitting of wood if needed.  It is something I can afford as well.  Thank you all for your experiences and insight.  This is a great place to learn.

[C. Cash]

What time period would such a knife represent, if it is based on an original?

[Chuck Burrows]

While the basic shape goes back at least to the Vikings 9 (sort of a narrow seax), the type of ground dates it IMO at the earliest 1830 or so?

PS I hadn't really looked at the advert - it says Solingen blade but I don't see where it says plain carbon steel - these knives/blades are also made in Stainless (a big PC/HC non no) so I would check with them to make sure what steel is being used...

[C. Cash]

That makes sense....reminds me of some of the many designs proposed as Bowies.  It's definitely carbon based on the last one I had my hands on.  Thank you very much Chuck.