Hawken Caplock Crisis

[eddillon]

I really did it this time.  After careful measuring and calculating, I managed to align the front of the hammer cup with rear of the nipple and the rear of the fence.  I have moved the barrel back a tad and the lock forward a tad.  Still not there yet.  Any suggestions?   

[doug]

Is it practical to heat the top portion of the hammer red hot and bend it to suit?  Might not look pretty but it would work.  Bend it cold and you are likely to break the hammer

cheers mooncoon

[Ted Kramer]

You didn't mention which lock you have but it may be possible to find a new cock with a bit longer throw.

[eddillon]

It is a J&S kit from Wahkon Bay from the 70s.

[rsells]

I worked through this problem twice last year.  I measured the distance from the center of the hole where the original hammer fits on the tumbler to the center of the hammer face and added in the amount that needs to be added to the hammer throw to make it hit the nipple in the middle of the hammer face.  I then went to tracks catalog and found a hammer that had the amount of throw needed to work with my breech and lock.  I then took the original hammer and cut the  mounting hole out of the hammer leaving a circular O.D.  Next I took the new hammer and cut a hole in the cock to match the area removed from the original hammer.  I made it a slight press fit between the two parts.  I then indexed the two parts to the location required to have the correct preload when the hammer hits the nipple.  I had the two parts tig welded together on both sides, filed the weld smooth, checked its function, and continued with the build.  A bit time consuming, but made a good looking functioning part.  I used a drill and reamer to cut the first hammer for the insert, and on the second job I purchased a step type drill and cut the hole in the new hammer much easier and quicker.  Good luck with your build.
                                                                              Roger Sells

[Dave B]

I had this happen on one of my Hawken type projects. I removed the hammer from the tumbler heated it up and used a cross peen hammer to stretch the section of the neck of the hammer on the back side. It is easy to go to far with this and required buying a new hammer to be gentler with. It worked still to well the second time around but it was just fine to fire just not dead center in the cup as you can see. The next problem was the hammering of this particular Alloy caused it to have a hard section that all my attempts to soften failed. I had to take it to a friend that had a heat treat furnace and he was able to get it back to something I could engrave easily.

[blaksmth]

A couple questions if I may ask,
 was the lock and breech a set, or of different makes?

Are you sure the snail on the breech is setting deep enough in the lock, it should be about half way on the side flat of the barrel but some times a little deeper though.

 If you look at some of the original Hawken rifles the locks on some of them the lock is not square with the line of the barrel flat, some are slightly tipped foreward, others are tipped slightly to the rear.

And in some of the pics I went over in my books some of the original hammers aren,t hitting center either.

[KLMoors]

I had a very similar situation Ed. This is going to be hard to describe in words ( especially before I've finished my coffee!).  Anyways, I ended up bending the cock to get a little more reach, then I opened up the tight curve of the cock by heating it up red hot and tapping on a piece of (I think) 1/2 inch rod down into it to open up the tight bend there a little bit. This forced the cup into the right position, but, now the bottom of the cup wasn't square to the nipple.

So, I filed the bottom of the cup square to the nipple, and it looked fine. I was expecting to have to drill the cup deeper, but that didn't turn out to be necessary.

[galamb]

From your description of how things are lining up (or failing to), it sounds like your current situation looks different from the picture above, in that the front of the hammer cup is coming in near the rear of your nipple.

The pic shows the rear of the hammer just barely clearing the rear of the nipple.

Anyhow, if I have your issue correct have you tried a shorter nipple (pistol sized).

I just had this issue myself with a (non-snail) patent breech and by going with a shorter (than rifle sized) nipple it allows the hammer to travel (further forward) enough to line things up.

I still had to bend the hammer a little bit, but nothing severe.

[frogwalking]

Dixie still sells a number of hammers with differing throws and the square hole uncut so you can make it fit your needs.  I have replaced a hammer several times and it usually works fine.

[eddillon]

My problem is the opposite of the problem shown in the photo.  I thought of solving using Ken Moors suggestions.  I don't know if a propane torch is hot enough to allow me to open the sharp curve with a piece of half inch rod.  Any opinions on the subject?

[B.Habermehl]

I have used two propane torches to get a silver frizzen hot enough to heat treat way back when. Mapp gas would probably work. BJH

[sqrldog]

one way to get everything aligned is to make two saw cut across the hammer one from each side. Cut almost but not all the way through the hammer. With the sring out of the lock stretch and bend the hammer to fit then tig weld up the saw cuts from each side dress and file the hammer down and you can make the original hammer work fine.

[eddillon]

Thank you all for your inputs.  I am now on my way to the local Mapp Gas store.

[Dphariss]

Bend the hammer then if necessary recut the hammer recess so it strikes the nipple squarely.

Dan

[KLMoors]

Yup, I used Mapp gas Ed.