Not Sure What I Have

[tlallijr]

 So I picked up a flintlock rifle kit yesterday. I purchased this through a friend of a friend's brother. I didn't meet the owner and didn't get many details other then it was purchased in 2001 from Track of The Wolf, it was the best wood available and it is a 50 cal. Southern Mountain rifle. I opened up the box and everything seems to be there including an extra butt plate and trigger guard. I'm a complete novice to the different architecture and furniture to resemble a school and have never built a gun. So I did a little looking and it seems I have Track's 'Classic Golden Age'. I don't think the furniture resembles a Southern Mountain rifle but I'm not sure. Can anybody identify this style of furniture and how can I tell the difference from iron and German silver. Sorry to ask such silly questions...but this kit fell into my lap at an unbelievable price and I'm a bit overwhelmed and want to at least have an idea of what I'm going to try and build. Tony

[B.Habermehl]

Not haveing tracks catalog handy I would say your right. Is your hardware " German silver" or brass. I can't tell from the pics. I bet your going to have issues with fitting the double set triggers in the trigger guards you have. Perhaps you may need to use a single trigger. It looks like you are going to have some fun! BJH

[gunmaker]

Great find !,  Even cast steel is magnetic, so that's solved.  Only me--but for that project with the "German" lock I'd go trad. brass, as a Penn. gun, that's what your furniture looks like as well.  That PB is found on Lancaster guns, among others.  Good luck, will be a great learning project....Tom

[tlallijr]

The patch box had a code on it followed by a dash then GS so I'm assuming its german silver. The ramrod pipes and toe plate look very similar to the patch box. The rough cast parts look different....more like iron. I wasn't sure how to tell the difference. Magnet won't stick to any of the parts.

[Dennis Glazener]

I didn't meet the owner and didn't get many details other then it was purchased in 2001 from Track of The Wolf, it was the best wood available and it is a 50 cal. Southern Mountain rifle.

Possibly someone thought this was a Southern Mountain rifle but it sure doesn't look like one to me.  Locks on almost all Southern Mountain rifles are English made and this one is Germanic. That's a good looking stock but again more suitable for a PA rifle (maybe a Beck?) than southern Mountain. The hardware looks PA too.

Not that familiar with PA rifles but might be Lancaster area hardware.

Dennis

[Pete G.]

You have a TOW kit that they call a "Classic Golden Age". The confusion comes in that they list the stock blank as the "Southern Mountain" style. Many different styles can come from the same blank.

Looks like two sets of hardware; probably steel and german silver. Get a couple of how-to books before you tackle this and you will be ahead of the game. "The Gunsmith of Grenville County " is probably the most comprehensive in that he covers not only techniques, but also touches on design, architecture, and history of the longrifle.
These kits are not too difficult to build, but it is not just a screw together and stain it type job either. There is still a lot of wood to come off of the stock, especially in the fore end and around the lock panels.

[Keb]

link
What PeteG said. It looks like what you have to me, too.

[Larry Luck]

Welcome to ALR. 

The components you have (lock, stock, and barrel) comprise the bulk of the parts expense.  If you are a fan of German silver, that's great.  As I recall, it did not really come into use until the 1840s or so. 

A Golden Age (1800-25?) rifle would have had brass buttplate, triggerguard, and thimbles.  Good news is that those components (particularly sandcast BP/TG) are pretty cheap.  A patchbox is a little bit of a challenge, but not rocket science and you could make one that you like from brass sheet.  I'd research the style rifle I would like that lives in that stock and get brass castings to build it.

And you can sell the parts you don't use here.

Looks like a great project.

Larry Luck

[Mark Elliott]

First thing, make some jaw liners for your vise.  You don't clamp a wood stock in metal jaws.   I use 3/4" plywood jaw liners that "float" on the main screw cover along with a thick piece of leather that wraps around the stock.    Don't do anything else with that stock until you have gotten a book or two on gun building and have researched what you want to build.   That stock and lock will make most any early, Rev War or earlier,  PA longrifle.     The mounts (butt piece, guard, side plate, thimbles, nose piece and patchbox) are easily and inexpensively replaced.   

[A.Merrill]

What Larry and Mark said. For now get the lock completely in and get the touch hole lined up with the pan. Put the lungs on the barrel and by the time you get all that done your new brass parts will be in. Forget the .GS you will be glad you did......don't ask how I know. I was young. Lol . Slow down and take your time if you run in to trouble just ask we will help. That's some good looking wood.   Alan

[Artificer]

Mark Elliot's advice about using "soft jaw pads" in your vise is WELL SAID and will keep you from dinging your stock up all over the place while you work on the gun. 

Over the past 40 years of gun work, I've used wood, leather, lead, brass, bronze and other vise pads but THE best I've ever found for wood are these that Brownell's sells.  When I purchased mine over 30 years ago, the Red ones were for wood and Green ones for metal.  Nowadays the Blue ones are for metal, but the Red is still for wood. 

These are not cheap, BUT will probably last a lifetime.  Mine are over 30 years old and though they bear scars from many "oopsies" over the years, they are still going strong.  You have to measure the distance from the top of your vise jaws and then down to the cover over the screw.  Take that measurement and cut an upside down "U" shape on the bottom of each pad so the top of the pad will sit right or only slightly below the top of your vise jaws.  What is GREAT about the Red ones is that even when you put a soft wood like birch or pine in the vise, the jaws won't dent or ding the wood.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/vises-accessories/vise-jaws/super-hold-vise-jaw-pads-prod12798.aspx

Gus

[tlallijr]

I would like to thank everyone for the advise so far, I figured I would need a better set up for my vise at some point. I'm also going to go with brass furniture as advised, I prefer the look of brass too. I have one book right now, The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle, but plan to buy a couple more, The Gunsmith of Greenville County and The Longrifle Construction Manual are on my list.

[Long John]

The lock looks like a Chambers/Siler lock.  The triggers look like an L&R set.  The stock profile looks like a Lancaster rifle to me.  As for the furniture I can't tell if it is German Silver or brass.  I believe German silver, a nickel/copper alloy, was invented in 1799, in Germany and didn't become popular in America until the late 1820's if I rember correctly.  (Yes, Tom, I AM that old!)  If the furniture is GS replace it with brass.  You'll be glad you did.

Best Regards,

J. Cholin