Author Topic: I'd like some advice to get started (Read 7460 times)

Nordnecker · « **on:** January 20, 2014, 08:07:22 PM »

I really want to build a long gun. NOW. I've been reading this and other related forums for quite a while. I've been to Dixon's gun fair twice and a few other events. I've got a really pretty curly maple stock blank that I'd like to use. I am certainly open to using a pre-shaped stock from a kit, though. I bought a copy of "The gunsmith of grenville co", I have TOTW catalogue, and basically am trying to educate myself as best I can. Blah, blah, blah.

I THINK the gun for me is this: A fairly plain but late Virginia smoothbore. 54 Cal/28 ga, no patchbox or cheekpiece. Very little carving, maybe a shell around the tang, etc. I do like drop points. I like iron furniture but brass is no more expensive. I probably do want a butt-plate. I like to file, but can't engrave. I can carve a little.

A kit would be nice in that all the decisions are made for me. However, I'd like to do as much as possible on my own. I have a well equipped woodworking and blacksmith shop. I have more time than money.

I'm thinking about using a late Ketland lock. I don't know what barrel to get- I think I'd prefer octagon over oct/round, I like swamped, but? There are so many buttplates, rr pipes, triggers, trigger bows, side plates, etc. I'm overwhelmed by choices.

Any advce would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

KLMoors · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2014, 11:22:32 PM »

When you say "late Virginia", do you know approximately which years, and where in Virginia?

I think once you answer these questions, it will give you a better idea of what you need as far as parts.

galamb · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2014, 11:26:16 PM »

Relatively new to building myself I will give you a bit of advice.

Pick a specific gun/rifle, or at least a few rifles from the same builder/school/area as the case may be.

Obtain ALL your parts before you start - it's really difficult to switch gears half way through a build if you can't get the "lock" (insert any component in the quotes) that you "planned" on using.

You say you want to build "now" - do you mean start "soon" or finish and shoot in very short order. If it's the latter, grab a kit, put her together and go shooting.

My first rifle from a blank probably took me 6 or 7 months - some of that caused by me "knowing better" and not following an established building order (and/or waiting for a component).

If you are going to do it all "yourself", a swamped barrel will be the most challenging of the barrel profiles for a first rifle/gun.

If you are fairly interested in a Virginia, you may want to try some searches for Sheetz guns/rifles. There was a whole "flock" of them (fathers/sons/brothers) etc that built using straight, tapered and swamped barrels - rifled and smoothbore over a few decades - something from one of them may "inspire" you.

Once you decide what you want, that will dictate what butt plate, trigger guard etc that you need to procure.

rich pierce · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2014, 02:06:47 AM »

It's going to be hard to find examples of late Virginia smoothbores compared to rifles. Smooth rifles and Kentucky fowling pieces seem to have been more prevalent in Pennsylvania.

Micah2 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2014, 02:29:56 AM »

Sounds to me like you know what you want. Use references of course, but you know you want a VA Smootie, start building. If there arent many out there, there will be at least one more when you finish!
Best advice I can give is this: Try and use hand tools only. Every builder fears "messing up". It is very hard to mess up if you use hand tools. Layout is very important, and a full scale drawing is certainly a great help.

galamb · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2014, 04:11:17 AM »

Speaking of which, if you do find a pattern/plan for a Later Virginia/Shenandoah (1800-1820) would you be so kind as to post up the source.

MBS has two or three Virginia plans but they are for the earlier styles - I'm interested in a later with the slimmer butt plate - late Sheets or Lauck would be very nice.

I have a good set of pictures and most of the measurements from an S Lauck rifle (Shumway's style of measuring), but a pattern would make it a whole lot easier.

davebozell · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2014, 02:05:15 PM »

"Kits" that are available make some of your component choices for you, but there are still many choices that you have to make for yourself as you build. Many of the TOTW kits give multiple choices for components even within a certain style of rifle. I am in a similar situation as you, except I don't have a blacksmith's shop. I have a fairly well-equipped woodshop with quite a few hand tools. I'm finding that even a pre-carved stock is quite a challenge. The best advise is to work slowly. As many have stated here, some days it's best to just walk away from an issue and come back later. Advise from here will certainly help as well. Good luck with your build!

Nordnecker · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2014, 04:12:08 PM »

Thanks everyone for your input. I live in Virginia so a Virginia type naturally appeals to me. I know what I like when I see it. Clay Smith has a Shenandoah rifle on his site that looks good to me (not for sale, not a fowler). In Tom Grinslades book on fowlers, one gun that catches my eye is simply called BS-5, British style #5. I wish there was a show around here before March.
When I said I wanted to build a gun now, I mean I want to start one now. I'm in no hurry to get it finished. I havent had any real projects on my bench for a couple of months and it's driving me crazy. Idle hands are the devils' playground, you know.
Some of my friends have been telling me for years that I ought to build one of these guns. I've always had other projects going on and the time is now. I was wishing over christmas that I something to work on in the shop to satisfy my soul.
Another thing I've had lying around for years is a 16 bore side by side muzzle loading barrel. It belonged to my dad. The rrpipes are in good shape. It even has the breech tang and a broken trigger bow. I guess you'd call it a hooked breech. 2 lugs on the back of the bbls that fit into corresponding holes in the tang.

James Rogers · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2014, 04:20:17 PM »

I can't remember for sure but I think Mark Elliott may have had access to a circa 1800 Lauck smoothbore from Winchester area a couple of years back. Maybe he might have some pictures he would share with you.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2014, 05:22:00 PM »

Quote from: James Rogers on January 21, 2014, 04:20:17 PM

I can't remember for sure but I think Mark Elliott may have had access to a circa 1800 Lauck smoothbore from Winchester area a couple of years back. Maybe he might have some pictures he would share with you.

Here is a link to the smoothbore that James is talking about. Click on the photos to enlarge. http://www.markelliottva.com/wordpress/2007/11/simon-lauck-buck-ball-gun/

Nordnecker · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2014, 07:40:27 PM »

Dennis, Thank you for that link. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. Just a few questions: The barrel appears to be attached with keys instead of pins. Is that barrel octagon to round? I don't see a wedding band or abrupt transition. The trigger bow is excellent. I really like the long rear tang and the finial to the front. The lock looks (to my untrained eye) to be alot like a Siler. I really like the shape of the stock and buttplate.

PS I see now the description is oct to round. But it also sais the patchbox is original/restored… What patchbox?

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2014, 08:31:29 PM »

Quote

Dennis, Thank you for that link. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. Just a few questions: The barrel appears to be attached with keys instead of pins. Is that barrel octagon to round? I don't see a wedding band or abrupt transition. The trigger bow is excellent. I really like the long rear tang and the finial to the front. The lock looks (to my untrained eye) to be alot like a Siler. I really like the shape of the stock and buttplate.

PS I see now the description is oct to round. But it also sais the patchbox is original/restored… What patchbox?

Not a Siler, note the rounded English style pan. I have seen other (Feather gun being one) locks in this style that appear to be English made locks. Maybe someone with more knowledge of locks can tell you more about it. If did use a Siler I would be sure to English'ize it by rounding up the Germanic style pan that is on a Siler.

No Patchbox. Down on the bottom of the page where you see patchbox note the comma between patchbox and restored. I suspect its phrases for search engines to pick-up or some other notes for the website.
Dennis

galamb · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2014, 09:36:07 PM »

I have been considering building a Late Virginia - a Lauck or a Sheets, so looking at every example I can find.

To me it looks like Chambers late Ketland would be a decent choice to start with, and with a bit of shaping, particularly the hammer, would look pretty close.

Nordnecker · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2014, 10:19:08 PM »

I see the similarities. The J. Chambers late Ketland is very different from TOTW's late Ketland. Do we like the roller on the frizzen spring, or not? Are there any quirks to a Ketland lock? Is it easy to disassemble/re-assemble? I wouldn't want to sacrifice dependability just for cosmetic reasons.

galamb · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2014, 12:50:58 AM »

Chambers Late Ketland is sold by Track as the Classic Ketland by Chambers (same lock).

Perhaps someone who is shooting one will drop in with an opinion, but from everything I have read it is one of the best, if not the best lock in the Chambers line - which says alot...

frogwalking · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2014, 12:56:08 AM »

TOTW sells Chamber's late ketland, but they call it LOCK-KL-FL-RH Classic Ketland. It is, however, Chamber's late ketland. I used one on a rifle for my son several years ago. We shot it, and another rifle that has a different lock. The comparison shows exactly how fast the late ketland is.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2014, 03:06:01 AM »

In my opinion its the best over the counter commercial lock available, as long as it fits the period/style of gun you are building.
Dennis

Bob Roller · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2014, 04:00:27 PM »

The late Ketland IS the best lock in the Chambers line and IMHO the best looking
as well.

Bob Roller

Don Getz · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2014, 05:45:39 PM »

I agree with Bob above. I really like that late Ketland. One thing I like about it is the big pan which gives you a much bigger area for a spark to land. Over the years I have used so many large siler flint locks and the only thing negative I could say
about them would be about the size of the pan, however, this does not deter me from using another one on a gun.....Don

Bob Roller · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2014, 06:02:50 PM »

My own preference is to have the roller on the frizzen as the potential for
trouble is much reduced IF the frizzen roller is treated with a drop of Kroil
or some similar super penetrant once in a while.The Chambers Ketland is a
good looking and good performing lock but to be cautious,I'd get another frizzen
spring as a back up.This is like the extra serpentine belt carried in the car,it may
never be needed but it is a comfort to have it along.
I used to make a Ketland variant that I used a rollered frizzen on and it was a
performer with the cammed frizzen spring that was required to make it work right,
I no long make that lock and they were never common due to the cost.

Bob Roller

gunmaker · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2014, 08:42:56 PM »

One vote for Chamber's late "Ketland" used 3 last year, one of --if not the fastest locks on the market. My 1st choice for southern guns, or English influenced fowlers. Life time warranty. ..Tom

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Author Topic: I'd like some advice to get started (Read 7460 times)

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