Well, it finally happened...

[Stophel]

First of all, hello everybody.  Been a long time since I've been here.

Well, something that I have always feared while using Aqua Fortis has finally occurred.
The wood cracked.   Apparently, I just got it too hot in that spot.  I did not see it nor hear it crack when it happened, but there it is.  Fortunately (as if there is anything fortunate about it), the crack is in a spot that is not so glaringly visible.  Underneath the cheekpiece, really close to the inside angle.  It runs from about a half inch in front of the cheekpiece front end (under the carving and in the most visible spot and the largest part of the crack) straight back to about the middle of the cheekpiece, where it is hard to see at all.  Needless to say, I'm not real happy.  But, there it is, and now to deal with it.

It's not a huge crack, but I can see it, of course, and I cannot stand the thought of it being there.  I've wet it to see if it will swell back up some and close up, at least a little.  After that, my thought is to run a little bit of super glue in the crack to hold it together (not that it's going anywhere anyway).  Seems most logical to me, anyway.  It's already stained, so no white streak to worry about, and it's going to have the grain filled with shellac, so there won't be an obvious light colored krazy glue line in a dark linseed oil finish.  Also I'll try my best (though it won't work, I'm sure) to put glue ONLY in the crack with the tip of a pin or something.  Worth a try. 

Sound like a reasonable course of action?  Anyone else ever had this happen?  It's always terrified me every time I turned on the heat gun, I just KNEW that the wood was going to crack.  Well, it took 15 years, but it finally did.

Actually, I had some "vinegaroon" that I would have used to stain the stock with, I had already tested it a few months ago, and it did a nice job, BUT, it since froze (like every thing else the past month) and it no longer makes such a nice color, but darker and grayer.  Blech.  So, I had to resort to the old stand by.

I shall have to make up some more vinegar and iron....

[Acer Saccharum]

Good to hear from you, Stoph. Sorry about your situation. If you just can't stand a finish-filled, or almost filled crack, can you slip a shaving of maple in there?


I've taken thin shim stock, and worked glue in with that, cut to a suitable shape.

[Dphariss]

Wood sometimes has some weird stresses in it. Should not crack just from using stain then blushing it.
But its wood, as a guy I used to work with liked to say....
I feel your pain. Never had this happen but there have been other accidents and boo-boos over the years...

PITA

Dan

[Nordnecker]

I've read your post several times and I'm trying to figure out exactly what happened. What do you mean it took 15 yrs? Did the entire toe of the stock crack loose? Or did a little check open up in the middle/outside of the stock. Although I'm new to this forum, I'm not new to fixing/gluing/repairing wood. I can't imagine using superglue to perminantly fix what you are describing. In my experience, even cyanoacrilate glue supposedly intended for wood has very little holding power, especially if you have to force a gap to close up. Trying to put glue or epoxy into a tiny crack is sort of hit or miss. Most of the time you hit the surrounding surface (even if you taped it off) and miss the crack you are trying to fill. If you warm the wood before glueing, then inject/apply the glue then let it cool, the glue will be drawn into the crack. If you do it the other way and fill it, then put a lamp or something on it or set it in front of a window to dry, the wood will expand /offgas and the glue will be forced out. Titebond wood glue is an excellent glue but it will not fill gaps and any aliphatic resin will contaminate a surface. Epoxy and a sliver of similar wood might be the best choice.

[Mike Brooks]

I thought you were going to tell us you finally got married....
Fill the crack with crazy glue and move on. I'm sure you,re the only one that can see the crack now anyway.

[Elnathan]

I've read your post several times and I'm trying to figure out exactly what happened. What do you mean it took 15 yrs?

He meant that after fifteen years of using AF, the constant fear he had that one of his stocks would crack while it was being heated finally came to pass.

Glad to see you back, Chris, but sorry for the situation that caused it...

[okawbow]

We use Locktite 420 superglue to fix cracks in laminated bows. It is as thin as water, and finds it's way to the bottom of the crack. It will eventually fill the crack,(or run completely out the other side). If the crack is all the way through; put a piece of electrical tape on the underside, until the glue dries.

The last bit of glue can be the thick superglue, and can be carefully scraped smooth after dry.

[PPatch]

Sounds to me like the wood separated due to uneven heating, the heated area pulled away from the unheated. I would go the "sliver of wood insert" route with something like Titebond II and some imaginative clamping. Do a test clamping first before applying any glue. I would not use cyanoacrylate glue for such a repair, ever.

dp

[BPRICHARD]

I agree with OKAWBOW that LOCKTITE 420 will work fine . The best method of application is an insulin syringe.  After the cyano has been applied you will have to let it sit for a day or two to cure.  There is an archery forum called STIK BOW that has a lot of info on repairing vintage wooden and laminate bows, take a look. 

I also found something that will help those that want to make stain using vinegar an iron fillings.  If you go to amazon and type in IRON FILINGS you will find them listed for about $10 for a 1 pound bag.  I purchased some for my grandsons science project.  Good luck on your repair.  Richard

[Tom Currie]

Chris, Glad to see you back here. Don't be a stranger.

[Cody Tetachuk]

As the saying goes "if there's no picture, it didn't really happen!". Let's see what your dealing with.

[Stophel]

It's not a huge crack, and not something I would need to fill with a sliver (nor be able to get one crammed in).  If finish were applied now, it would look like a scratch.  I'm not able to get a photograph where the crack will show.

"I thought you were going to tell us you finally got married.... Wink
Fill the crack with crazy glue and move on. I'm sure you,re the only one that can see the crack now anyway."



Mike, I almost did get married.  Didn't quite work out.  And the crack is so small, I cannot get it to register on my digital camera AT ALL!!!     And I know, no one else would ever even notice it.

[Don Getz]

Stoph, glad to see that you are still working at it.    Sounds like the crack is not near big enough for a few copper staples.
I was wondering what kind of heat are you applying to the stock?  .....Don

[Acer Saccharum]

....but I know the crack is there!  

[Stophel]

Using a heat gun.

The grain in this area kinda turns out, so there's a lot of continuous end-ish grain right there, which, I'm sure, made it easier for the crack to form.

And yes, I'm very obsessive about such things (actually, about most all things), and it drives me crazy.   

[boman]

 Chris, if its as small as you describe and you say its not going any where(won't run) I should think shellac and sanding wet when applying the finish will fill it. another trick I've used is shoe polish for a filler ( I wax my stocks as a final coat of finish and just keep working the shoe polish into the crack till it fills).

 Steve

[KentSmith]

I had this happen to me, about 10 years ago,in the old shop, unheated, during this time of the year, very cold weather while blushing a stock using AF.  Heated it up before it had dried completely.  Not sure it being wet still, or being really cold still or just being wood caused the crack.  A tiny crack that I worried would get bigger but never did and nobody knew it was there but me after finishing the gun.  You should do the super glue thing, finish the gun and go on with your life and expect to go another 15 years before it happens again.

[whitebear]

You didn't say if this gun is for you or a customer.  If for a customer I would use the superglue method, if for you, I probably would fill the crack with finish and keep rolling.  In all likely hood no one will ever notice it although to you the Grand Canyon is small compared to it.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Great to have you back, Chris.  And you too Cody!

i don't think you will have a continually increasing crack, so I'd just let the finish fill it as much as it will, and call it done.

Don't underestimate the powers and qualities of CA.  I build an English warbow from a most unlikely stave of BC yew...lots of knots and drying cracks running right to the edge.  Once I had the bow shaped, I filled the cracks and knocks with Ca and let it cure, then filled them again, until the watery glue ran on the surface.  Once the bow was tillered, and I could draw it to 32" the draw weight came out at just a bit over 100 pounds,  And the CA kept the back from coming apart.  A complete success from a most unlikely stave.  So in deep thin and narrow splits and cracks, the super thin adhesive goes all the way to the bottom of the check, and plasticizes it.

[Stophel]

I'm building the gun for someone.  I'll super glue it later today and roll on with it.

Years ago, I built a Berks county barn gun (the most "fun" gun I have ever built)  that had several drying cracks in the surface of the stock blank that I was able to mostly cut off as I worked down, but some were deep enough and remained (and are pretty visible).  I kinda liked it for this gun, actually, so I just stained it, glued it (didn't try to fill the cracks, just to get some glue down inside.  The cracks still show) and finished it.

 

[T*O*F]

All this talk of SuperGlue has me curious.  I've never had much luck with it as a miracle glue, but I just buy whatever the store has when I need some.  I've read on various woodworking and knifemaking sites about its use for filling cracks.  I'm wondering if there are specific formulations available specifically for bridging large gaps and such.

[Tim Crosby]

 So in deep thin and narrow splits and cracks, the super thin adhesive goes all the way to the bottom of the check, and plasticizes it.

 If you use thin first and while still wet follow it up with a medium the thin will wick the medium down into the crack. Thin alone may just sink into grain.

   Tim C.

[okawbow]

TOF, I use cyranoacylic in my bowmaking all the time. It works for splicing lamination pairs together before gluing up bow blanks. I use it to glue on tip and handle overlays. Done right; it holds as good or better than epoxy.

I buy large bottles of industrial quality, thin, medium, and thick formulations. I also buy a bottle of accelerator, that hardens the glue in seconds. The thin formulas will get down to the very bottom of a hairline crack, and stabilize it. The thicker formulas will fill small gaps. The accelerator lets you glue a chip back on, and continue working in a couple minutes.  

 

[Stophel]

AND, I have NEVER seen wood shrink this badly on a gunstock.  The weather has been SO d--n cold here for SO d--n long.  We've never had weather like this in my life.  The wood has shrunk and seems to continue to shrink.   It's killing me too.  I've been sick with BAD sinus pressure nonstop the past month (still am). And all that time, while I have been unable to work on the gun, the stock kept shrinking. The buttplate gets filed down to match the stock and in a week, it's hanging off  the bottom of the wood a sixteenth of an inch again.  The fore end has shrunk almost an eighth of an inch in length.  I couldn't even get the ramrod pipe to fit back in its place the other day, the stupid tang simply would not bottom out, as the wood had shrunk away from it.  Yes, that bad.  I'm having more and more problems as I try to put this cussed thing back together.  None of the parts fit anymore.  I've had wood shrink, but nowhere near this bad.  It's turning into a nightmare.

[E.vonAschwege]

AND, I have NEVER seen wood shrink this badly on a gunstock.  The weather has been SO d--n cold here for SO d--n long.  We've never had weather like this in my life.  .  None of the parts fit anymore.  I've had wood shrink, but nowhere near this bad.  It's turning into a nightmare.

Maybe this could be a good candidate for an all out "fake" job?  If the wood has shrunk in the last 3 months the same it would shrink in 200 years, it's a good place to start.  Just trying to see the bright side of an otherwise completely agonizing situation.  Good luck!
-Eric