Author Topic: deer skin  (Read 5803 times)

Offline frenchman

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deer skin
« on: January 28, 2014, 05:35:45 AM »
About deer skin's ???
what are they good for :-\ . Are they good for pouches or are they better for clothing. I was looking on Tandy for heavy leather and they sale some deer leather and staining deer leather . It seems to be like felt almost
Denis

Offline Elnathan

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 05:50:44 AM »
Depends. My pouch is made from fairly thick  - 7-8oz - bark-tanned deerskin and is quite stiff. I also have some brain-tanned deerskin which is as soft as can be. The brain-tanned stuff is good for little bags to in which keep flints, patches, and anything else I want to keep together inside the pouch.
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Offline Bull Shannon

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 05:54:46 AM »
It depends a lot on what you want to make, be it buckskin clothing or a shooting bag as well as the hide itself.  Deerskin isn't uniform thickness and is thinner on the edges in the belly region so you want to line up a hide accordingly or you'll end up with holes in whatever you are making very soon.  For instance, if you are making a pair of moccasins you want to have the thickest part, the shoulder, to be the soles.  Also, don't buy the bright yellow deerskins as they are thoroughly modern.  The un-dyed, natural white hides are the closest to what natural brain tanned looked like. Then you can dye them whatever color you like.

I'm sure there is a lot more information on this subject that I haven't touched on, so don't let this be the final lesson on deerskin and making accoutrements from them.
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Offline Artificer

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 12:47:49 PM »
Frenchman,

First, here is a link describing original methods of tanning hides as a short description of each method.  Though one could make a fair living at Tanning in the 17th through 19th century in England, it was such a vile and smelly process that Tanneries had to be located down river from most towns and some towns even had laws restricting where Tanners could go as the tanning materials got soaked into their skin and they always smelled terrible..
http://www.alpharubicon.com/primitive/tanningdragoona.htm

Perhaps I can save you from some of the expensive and frustrating mistakes many of us made in the 70’s and early 80’s. 

In the spring of 1972, I walked into the Tandy Leather Store in Oceanside, CA and bought a “buckskin” colored cowhide split to make my first Possibles Pouch.  Though it was not bad as a “first project” in leather working and I learned some from it, the pouch was too soft and not HC.  The only thing it turned out as useful for was as a “storage bag” hanging from the suspension rope that held up the Ozan in a full sized Lodge (Tipi) a few years later. 

Because I’m still so embarrassed about it, I will only vaguely; mention the “buckskin” coat and pants I ordered from an Okinawa Tailor in early 1973.  After giving them detailed instructions, patterns and period buttons and being ASSURED I would get buckskin; what I got was a split cowhide outfit with a zipper in the side of the “Jacket” and terrible trousers.  By adding the TC Hawken Rifle I owned, I was the picture of what John Baird and others then called “A Japanese Mountain Man.”  At least I was able to sell that outfit to a Biker who used it as “riding leathers” and got some of my money back.

On my first trip to the Primitive Range at Friendship, In in the spring of 1974, the only thing that I had that was PC was a knife sheath I had made in the style of a Mountain Man sheath for a skinning knife of that period.  There I learned about “Brain Tanned” Buckskin and the fact I could not afford it.  Some folks will remember Richard “Dick” Kop of RK Lodges and how he used to bring PILES of chrome tanned buckskins (like the ones Tandy still sells) to sell there.  Many if not most of us used those hides to make “Buckskin Outfits.”  .The problem was and remains that while chrome tanned buckskins are soft enough for clothing, they don’t breathe like real Brain Tanned Buckskin, which is more like a heavy cloth.  You DON’T want to buy chrome tanned buckskin or buckskin splits to make clothing out of, TRUST me!! 

Even Brain Tanned Buckskin that breathes is miserable to wear when it is hot and cold and clammy when wet.  During the period, Mountain Men would stop short on their way to Rendezvous and put on their fanciest (Brain Tanned) buckskins BUT would change BACK into linen and wool (for as long as the clothes lasted) when going “back to work” trapping. 

I don’t know how many tens of thousands of Deer Skins were collected here “in the colonies” to be sold here and back to England.  One of the most common uses of those skins were for Buckskin Breeches AFTER the skins were tanned.  Buckskin Breeches were sort of the “Workman’s Blue Jeans” of the period, though they became “fashionably trendy” for the English Upper Classes to wear for “sporting use.”  Information and links on Buckskin Breeches may be found in this link and scroll down to my reply # 13.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29210.0

About the ONLY buckskin that Tandy sells or used to sell that “looks” correct was/is the “Buckskin Splits” they at least used to stock.  Though I think they were/are still chrome tanned and you DON’T want to make clothing out of them, they don’t have a smooth side and both sides are rough or “suede” and resemble real Brain Tanned Buckskin, IF you buy what they call the “Smoke” color or the undyed/natural color as Bull mentioned above.  They could be made into small pouches (like Flint Wallets) or bags, but are not good for shooting pouches.

 MAYBE Tandy is now selling Veg Tanned Buckskin Splits, but they don’t seem to describe what tanning process is used.  You can buy Veg Tanned Splits from other sources and they would be better leather and more HC for small bags, pouches and wallets (like Flint Wallets) and cost much less than Brain Tanned Buckskin.  .



Gus


Offline Artificer

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 01:14:33 PM »
Depends. My pouch is made from fairly thick  - 7-8oz - bark-tanned deerskin and is quite stiff. I also have some brain-tanned deerskin which is as soft as can be. The brain-tanned stuff is good for little bags to in which keep flints, patches, and anything else I want to keep together inside the pouch.

Please don't take this as criticism, but I was surprised to read your buckskin pouch was made from 7-8 oz. thick buckskin leather. 

I only tried Brain Tanning a deer hide ONE time because it was such a time consuming process and it was very difficult to do the processing after work and on weekends.  The hide did turn out, but it was only about 5 oz. to 6 oz thick at most and it was from a large Buck. 

I surely don't know everything about leather, but guess I have just never heard of a deer skin being that thick before.
Gus

Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 02:07:55 PM »
    Frenchman    Good barktanned deer hide makes very good pouchs ,knife sheaths,bullet bags,But I would not
            make moccasins out of it as they would be too slick and slimmy when wet.Its not even close to what Tandy
            sells.There is more work in makin bags with it but the end results are what counts.
           
              If its too thick or heavy it can be skived down and stretched more.Use the heavy stuff for straps or belts
             Its takes walnut stain real well for an old timmy look that I think looks good.Iwill send you some pix if you
             want some ideas as I don't know how to post pix on this forum any more.  Curt


Offline frenchman

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 06:04:35 PM »
guy's thank you so much all info It's greatly appreciated
Denis
Denis

Offline Elnathan

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 06:28:45 PM »
Depends. My pouch is made from fairly thick  - 7-8oz - bark-tanned deerskin and is quite stiff. I also have some brain-tanned deerskin which is as soft as can be. The brain-tanned stuff is good for little bags to in which keep flints, patches, and anything else I want to keep together inside the pouch.

Please don't take this as criticism, but I was surprised to read your buckskin pouch was made from 7-8 oz. thick buckskin leather.  

I only tried Brain Tanning a deer hide ONE time because it was such a time consuming process and it was very difficult to do the processing after work and on weekends.  The hide did turn out, but it was only about 5 oz. to 6 oz thick at most and it was from a large Buck.  

I surely don't know everything about leather, but guess I have just never heard of a deer skin being that thick before.
Gus

It is bark-tanned with the epidermis still on, not brain-tanned, and I bought it from Matt Richards. I asked for a hide on the thicker end of the spectrum he listed as typical, and I got a very thick hide - I have occasionally wondered if he didn't send me part of an elk hide (which he also sold at the time) instead of deerskin.


BTW, Frenchman, if you want genuine brain-tanned leather, you can get it from Matt Richards:
http://www.braintan.com/hides/deer.htm
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 06:31:10 PM by Elnathan »
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Artificer

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 09:17:16 PM »

It is bark-tanned with the epidermis still on, not brain-tanned, and I bought it from Matt Richards. I asked for a hide on the thicker end of the spectrum he listed as typical, and I got a very thick hide - I have occasionally wondered if he didn't send me part of an elk hide (which he also sold at the time) instead of deerskin.

I probably would have wondered the same thing.  GRIN.  Though I've never dealt with Matt, before, I've heard good things about him.  $ 18.00 per square foot for real brain tanned buckskin is a VERY reasonable price for all that work. 

Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 09:34:21 PM »
Could have been elk, but just as likely a big old mule deer buck - their hide get at least as thick as smaller elk...
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And that has made all the difference.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: deer skin
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 09:44:10 PM »
I used to send deer hides to the Berlin Glove Factory every year.  They came back as garment tanned leather skived to a uniform thickness.  I don't know what process they used.  I made these two pouches from them over 20 years ago and soaked them in walnut hulls for several days.  The tannic acid may have had more effect on the leather than just coloring it.  I don't like thick pouches and have never found a downside to these other than they have sagged a bit over the years.







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