Why does a Deluxe Siler flint hammer have a longer throw

[Leatherbark]

Half cock on a  Deluxe Siler is about where full cock is on a regular Siler (almost).  I sort of like the extra distance so the longer flints don't touch the frizzen.  I wonder why this change was made for?

Also it seems my buddies Chambers late Ketland flintlock has a brown bess length of throw.  Is there another style for a Southern Mountain rifle that has a shorter throw?  Not that it has seemed to matter as far as accuracy but just thinking out loud.

Thanks

Bob

[E.vonAschwege]

Jim or Barbie may be able to chime in better, but here's my 2c. 

The length that the hammer travels can be changed depending on the tumbler you're using.  IIRC, Jim told me he switched out the tumbler in the Christian Springs and Small Siler locks and is now using the Golden Age tumbler in them to give the flint greater clearance at half cock.  Older Small siler locks and some of his others, had very little clearance at half cock and needed a special square flint.  Might have been the case too for the Late Ketland as well. 

The hammer will also have more momentum when it hits the frizzen when released from further back.  If you're finicky about the length it travels, a regular Siler tumbler may swap. 

-Eric

[smylee grouch]

The shape of the tumbler on the reg. siler and delux siler is different and maybe the sear too. The shape of the tumbler where the main spring  bears is where the difference is and maybe where the sear engages the tumbler too.

[Dphariss]

Half cock on a  Deluxe Siler is about where full cock is on a regular Siler (almost).  I sort of like the extra distance so the longer flints don't touch the frizzen.  I wonder why this change was made for?

Also it seems my buddies Chambers late Ketland flintlock has a brown bess length of throw.  Is there another style for a Southern Mountain rifle that has a shorter throw?  Not that it has seemed to matter as far as accuracy but just thinking out loud.

Thanks

Bob

So it was possible to put a regular flint in it without knocking the back off it.
The suppliers were having to sell specially knapped flints for the Silers before the change.
If it bugs you shorten the sear nose a little. Very little at a time and maintain angles and such.
None of the Chambers locks I have seen, 15 or so from about 14 months ago with locks ordered for the Guild were not as extreme as you describe.
Dan

[Leatherbark]

It bugs me not.  I've had two regular and one deluxe over the years and am currently using the deluxe which by the way is "Deluxe".  A friend was concerned about locktime and I told him that don't pay attention to that extra throw it's there for a reason.

I do remember having to fiddle with flints with my regular Silers and it was a problem, I just was wondering if it was a performance modification or for the clearance.

Thank you guys for your answer.


Bob

[David R. Pennington]

Some folks think the style of the Siler is too "Germanic" for southern mountain rifle as they more typically had English locks. I have an old standard Siler I like. It is a little picky on flint size I guess.

[Bill Paton]

To be more in line with period usage, flint guns have "cocks" and percussion guns have "hammers".   Bill

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It is my understanding that the changes in the Lg Siler were in both the tumbler and the sear.  The tumblr was re-designed to increase the length of travel, giving the flint better clearance at half cock, and to increase the energy delivered to the frizzen.  The lock now has better balance so that there is more of an acceleration to the cock on it's way to the frizzen, and less pressure by the foot of the mainspring against the tumbler 's arm at full cock.  This reduces the pressure needed for the sear to hold in full cock notch, and thus a lighter trigger pull can be achieved.  In addition, the sear arm returns to relatively the same place in half and full cock, which makes it's relationship to the trigger easier to get right.
Maybe it's all just theory.  But the locks are much improved to my thinking, than Bud's first design.

[Jim Chambers]

You guys are pretty much correct in all the above except I have not changed the sear at all, only the tumbler.  Just about all the early locks I have examined had the longer throw.  In general the shorter throw seems to be present mostly on late period English locks.  I don't know why.  If you want speed in a lock (or when throwing a baseball) you need a good wind-up.  In the longer throw lock, yes it does take the flint slightly longer to contact the frizzen and start scraping down it to produce sparks, but with all the built up momentum the scrape itself happens quicker.  So, there's little or no difference in time of ignition.  The longer throw sure makes flint selection much easier, especially in the small Siler lock.  Hope this helps.

By the way, don't think you can just order one of the new tumblers and put it in your old Siler lock.  The position of the mainspring needs to be moved back toward the tumbler about  1/16" when using the longer throw tumbler.

[Leatherbark]

Thank you all.