Brass

[Nordnecker]

What do you guys think of TOW's brass castings? I've read that it isn't even brass, and that it's hard and brittle. Is this true?

[FlintFan]

That used to be true, but not anymore. Over the past 5-6 years or so, they have been redoing many of their molds in-house, and using a foundry that uses real brass.  I "think" they still carry some castings from other manufactures that use yellow bronze (or whatever the hard alloy is) so it might be worth asking them what the specific parts are made from that you want. 

[flehto]

I bought the buttplate pictured below in 1980 because it was investment cast  and as this LR ages, the color becomes more "unbrass like". I see this LR once in a while  and the "pink" color just becomes more pink. For a long while I wouldn't buy an investment cast part because of this experience.  Actually if it were to be polished, it would look somewhat the same color as the yellow brass Pbox....Very disappointing to say the least......Fred

[Acer Saccharum]

I think that real hard stuff is Silicon Bronze. Looks like brass, won't bend or anneal. Files just glide over it.

[KLMoors]

They might have changed their material for some parts, but for the early style buttplates and trigger guards that I have bought from them in the last 2 years- it is not nice yellow brass. I only use a few different "early" style parts, so my experience is limited by that, but none have been what I would call brass. This stuff is pretty hard to work with.

In fact, the best way to work with it is to heat it up and bend it when it is a dull red.  It will not anneal using the usual methods for brass.

It is a real shame, because I would gladly pay some more to get nice brass castings. It would save a ton of time to actually be able to safely bend a part cold after annealing.

[KentSmith]

Reaves Goehring

[Ky-Flinter]

http://knobmountainmuzzleloading.com/

-Ron

[Gaeckle]

Could be red brass.......stuff used in boiler valves and other harsh conditions that would make yellow brass unsuitable.......


I'll be doing some casting within the next couple of weeks.......I get an opportunity to do this just but once a year and I've got about 75 pounds of brass......mostly keys, some really good yellow brass valves, some old unusable rifle brass.....

[Sawatis]

Yeah, I ran into that with some casting I got and still have from TOW from about 8 years back...started getting my castings from Reeves and what a difference. 
John

[frogwalking]

I built a rifle using TOW parts, including brass butt plate and triggerguard about 5  years ago.  I had no issues.  The brass parts filed, bent and  polished as expected.  My son has the rifle now, and the brass is aging as normally. 

[TinStar]

I wish Reeves would put out a catalog or website so you could see what he has to offer.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[Hungry Horse]

As much as you all scream, about the reddish color of some of the brass out there, it is in a lot of cases, perfectly period. In the past I owned a couple of brass fitted squirrel rifles that had original brass fittings that had a distinct red cast to them, and yes the sheet brass inlays and patchbox didn't match the rest of the fittings. The castings looked for all there world like they had been cast out of old plumbing parts. Now that being said I have had some modern brass parts that were a pain to file, and polish.

                    Hungry Horse

[JBJ]

Purchased butt plate and trigger guard for an Ohio rifle from TOW last year and they were fine.
J.B.

[Keb]

I built a fowling gun about 30 years ago using an old repaired brass butt plate. The brass aged kinda speckled, light & dark but still brass color. It looks like anything that was yellow went in the melting pot.

[JCKelly]

Pink means it does not have enough zinc.

This might be the whole casting, or it might just be the surface, as some zinc will burn out during casting.

Or, if it gets acid on it (like my old cat upchucking on an antique English charcoal room warmer) that will selectively dissolve the zine & leave a reddish colored metal.

Polish it a bit before you give up on it.

And, as said above, a pretty wide range of copper-zinc alloys were used for "brass" hardware in the old days.

Quick review: Cartridge brass (C260) is about 70% copper, 30% zinc & is usually what you get when you buy new sheet or bar. Except much of it has a percent or so of lead added for ease of machining/engraving. Lead will make it break, or crumble, when you try to bend it hot. So bend it cold, and anneal afterwards.

Cast "brass", well there are a lot of things that might be. Many also have lead to improve casting. I'd never bend cast brass hot for fear it would crumble. Reaves has great castings, I don't know what they are, nor whether they contain lead, but I like them.
If you must have a catalog & on-line shopping, buy somewhere else.
If you want the best castings, buy from Reaves Goehring & do it his way. If nothing else, the education you get on the phone with him is worth a lot.
That, in MHO, is your choice.

[Don Getz]

Back in the early 80's, Bob Lepley had his first stock machine set up in a corner of our barrel shop.   At that time we developed
the first Isaac Haines kit.  We built it around the only investment cast parts that were available, they were what we called "small Bivins" parts, and were done by Pete Allan.  We would buy directly from Pete.  They were not really pink in color,
but did have an off color brass.   We sold a bunch of those kits, and the same kits are still being sold by various dealers.......
Don

[Pete G.]

That is one of the reasons that I much prefer the sand cast parts.  Although they require much more work, the parts work more easily. The small pits that occasionally show up can be annoying if they are in a bad place, like an edge on a guard, but the old gunsmiths had the same thing happen, so the pits were usually just filled with solder where it was objectionable.

[Nordnecker]

So I recieved my trigger guard and butt plate yesterday from TOW. They are not pitted anywhere. They are yellow and a file seems to cut readily. The butt plate is nice and thick, but the trigger bow seems a little thin to me. These are for a fowler type, acorn finial on the TG. I guess I thought the bow would have been at least an 1/8" finished. I think it miked at .116 at the parting line. Is this typical? And on a late gun of this type, Is the TG flush or proud of the stock? 

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I've started using sand cast brass parts. I think the sand cast brass is a lot more workable and yellow and seems to me that a lot of the investment cast brass requires almost as much work, after you refine the shape and remove the casting gates, you've still got as much time working the harder brass.

[mattdog]

"Or, if it gets acid on it (like my old cat upchucking on an antique English charcoal room warmer) that will selectively dissolve the zine & leave a reddish colored metal."

I didn't know that cat barf could disolve zinc, but it figures....