Barrel weights? newby question...

[dlbarr]

I'm seeing references in these posts on A, B, C barrel weights. What does that mean and what is the criteria for choosing one over the other?

[rich pierce]

These vary from maker to maker but refer to the diameter of swamped barrels at the breech.  A weight would be the thinnest and D weight the thickest.  Folks pick one profile over another for weight and style and of course caliber.

Typically
A weight is .950 at the breech
B weight is 1.000 at the beech
C weight is 1.062 at the breech
D weight is 1.125 at the breech.

[dlbarr]

I see.... so it doesn't apply to straight barrels which is likely what I'll choose for my first "from scratch" rifle build. That is, unless someone here can talk me into trying my first barrel inlet job with a swamped barrel.

Thanks for the clarification, Rich.

[Don Getz]

Since we were the ones who created these designations, I guess I can explain them.   The breech sizes that are shown by
Rich above are correct.   We have one milling machine that has a rise and fall head.  This mill has a bearing that rides on a
steel pattern.   This pattern is shaped just like one flat on the barrel.  For instance, if I just finished a run of "A" size barrel,
.950 breech, and want to go up to a B weight with a 1.000 breech, I would lower the bearing which will in turn will raise the
cutter .025.  This will remove .025 less on each flat, and raising the overall size to l.000.   We only used these designations
on our 38" Transitional barrels, and the 42" golden age barrels.

We had one gentleman that we talked to at our Artisans show who thought the original Isaac Haines rifle had a 38" barrel.
Most of the original Isaac Haines rifles most likely had longer barrels.    We used the 38" barrel because it was the longest
barrel we could use in that Don Allen duplicating machine.  They have since changed the machine to accommodate longer
barrels...........Don

[galamb]

If you plan on inletting the barrel yourself and it's your first build I would go with a straight barrel.

I started that way myself and now 4 rifles later (3 straight and 1 tapered barrel) I have mustered the "courage" to try inletting a swamp myself 

Your first rifle will no doubt contain numerous mistakes - that is how you learn and improve. And if you are like me (don't really fully understand something until you have done it yourself at least once, no matter how much you read or watch), a straight barrel is a good way to learn.

You can move it back/forth a little to get the lock geometry correct once the barrel is inlet - you can't do that with a taper or swamp without leaving very visible gaps which would have to be hidden - again, once you have done it once you will know what to watch for/be careful around the next time.

Plus, you still can make some pretty nice rifles with a straight barrel - just pick something that would have had a straight barrel on the original so that it doesn't look like a "wannabe" rifle.

If you only plan on one rifle and the style you want really "needs" a swamped barrel, you could have the inlet done for you and take it from there.

[dlbarr]

Your approach is similar to the way I envisioned moving into gun building. I'd like to build a smooth bore trade gun but I can also think of a few rifle styles I'd like as well. The thought occurs to me that maybe starting with a pistol is not a bad idea.... will figure it out as I go along.

[Clark Badgett]

Dave, I am of the mindset that a person CAN do just about anything they set their mind to do. Now, granted the finished product might not be a masterpiece, but.... If you wish to have the "swamped" look then go for it, you can do the inlet in the old method that doesn't require the unseen flats fitted at all, except up near the muzzle. I tried the straight sided barrel, it's now 3 pistol barrels. Didn't like the balance very much.

[dlbarr]

Clark, where do I find instructions/directions on doing this?

BTW, about where in So. Indiana is your locale? I grew up in Fort Wayne but left there 30 yrs ago for the west coast. 

[Elnathan]

Clark, where do I find instructions/directions on doing this?

BTW, about where in So. Indiana is your locale? I grew up in Fort Wayne but left there 30 yrs ago for the west coast. 

Here would be a good place to start: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29920.0

There are also several good books out there - the one I have is The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander, but there are others as well.

I can't tell you how much harder a swamped barrel is to inlet than a straight barrel because I have never inlet a straight barrel - my first was a swamped barrel. If I can do it, anyone can.

[Dennis Glazener]

 We used the 38" barrel because it was the longest
barrel we could use in that Don Allen duplicating machine.  They have since changed the machine to accommodate longer
barrels...........Don

A little off topic but this goes with what I have always said that I thought some original measurements are what they are due to the builders equipment. I know of two 45 1/4" barrels on Gillespie rifles, I first thought they had been cut off but after pulling one barrel and seeing it did not appear to have been cutoff, I would bet that 45 1/4" was the longest they could get in their rifling bench.
Dennis

[Mark Elliott]

The procedure for inletting a straight and a swamped barrel is exactly the same.  It will just take you a little longer to inlet a swamped barrel.    My first rifle had a swamped barrel, and I later built rifles with straight barrels simply because of price.   The procedure I use now, that that others have demonstrated here,  is a good deal more fool proof than how I inlet that first rifle.   If you would like a rifle with a swamped barrel, I say go ahead and build a rifle with a swamped barrel.   It is a basic gun building skill.   If you are unsure if you can do it,  get help.  There is plenty of help here and there may be someone local to you that could help you in person.   I can understand you wanting to taking it slow with carving or engraving as there is a lot to learn there.  However, inletting a barrel is inletting a barrel; and most of your work will never show.   Get somebody to take an antique rifle apart for you.   I guarantee it will boost your confidence.   

By the way,  I was 16 when I inlet my first swamped barrel, and there was little or no help in those days.   You have no excuse not to do it today.   Are you going to let a 16 year old show you up?

[Gaeckle]

speaking of barrels.......I wonder if you could swamp or alter the profile of a straight barrel (provided there is enough meat to do so).....

I would suppose it could be done by hand, but how would one approach this?

[Mark Elliott]

speaking of barrels.......I wonder if you could swamp or alter the profile of a straight barrel (provided there is enough meat to do so).....

I would suppose it could be done by hand, but how would one approach this?

Yes,  it is called a file.     

[dlbarr]

.... Are you going to let a 16 year old show you up?

  OK, Elnathen & Mark, you got me there. I will not fear swamped barrel inletting.

Thanks for the encouragement. 

[Bob Roller]

Filing a long progressive radius x8 would be quite a project.
If the barrel is made of a soft material and you are serious
about filing it to contour,you might get a couple of "Vixen"
files.Most good industrial supply houses have them.They
have semi circular teeth that will shear of metal once you
are familiar with them.I have several including a half round
one.

Bob Roller

[Clark Badgett]

Clark, where do I find instructions/directions on doing this?

BTW, about where in So. Indiana is your locale? I grew up in Fort Wayne but left there 30 yrs ago for the west coast.  

I am right across the river from Louisville, KY, literally too close to the city for true country boy comfort. Here is the link describing one method to inlet a swamped barrel without all the fuss. http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/theclassroom.htm  about half way down

[dlbarr]

Thanks Clark. I'll look at this tomorrow, gonna call it a day now.

I like living in the west but I do miss Indiana.

[Pete G.]

Your approach is similar to the way I envisioned moving into gun building. I'd like to build a smooth bore trade gun but I can also think of a few rifle styles I'd like as well. The thought occurs to me that maybe starting with a pistol is not a bad idea.... will figure it out as I go along.

Build a few pistols and you will modify that thinking. I find it much more difficult to keep things right with a pistol than a rifle.

Go with the swamped barrel. You will like the balance of finished rifle much more; and forget trying to file in any significant swamp. I built a late flint and filed the barrel to an historically correct swamp of about 1/16". After inleting and finishing you can hardly tell any difference from a straight barrel, and it only took about a week to do it.

[smallpatch]

Dave,

Many great builders on this site do the same thing I do with a swamped barrel...... Send it to Dave Rase.  Barrel inletting is the most time consuming thing you will do on a rifle.  Dave's prices are very good, and saves my sanity, (what little is left) for the more rewarding parts of building.

[obsidian]

Good info for my file as well concerning the sizes of the barrel weights.
About inletting a swamped barrel as your first, from another beginner I would also say go for it.  I just finished my first on 49.5" tapered oct. to round.  It's a walnut stock on a fusil and came out alright.   Already thinking about inletting my next which will be a swamped squirrel gun.  I guess part of the fun of being new to this is every step is especially enjoyable providing you can go slow and steady.  If I had already inlet a couple dozen, doubt I would be looking forward to the next one this much! 

Enjoy the process.   Rich

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

If you're considering a pistol build for a first attempt. Consider this first.

Everybody has different size hands, and the length of pull in a pistol will affect the way the pistol feels to the shooter far more than the length of pull of a rifle feels to the shooter. If that makes sense.

I have tried different pistols and some feel great others just don't cut it, regardless of the fit and finish of the piece. Your hand is on the grip and your finger has to reach the trigger at a certain point, there isn't much room for adjustment there.

I think a try stock for a pattern is a must when building a pistol.