Proper metal finish on earlier Hawken

[eddillon]

Does anyone know what the barrel and furniture finish was on earlier Hawkens?  The only original that I have handled was without finish on the barrel that was protected by the stock.   

[Dave B]

Listening to a conversation about a Hawken rifle in the museum of the fur trade in Nebraska revealed that they on this particular rifle had a charcoal blued  barrel with the patent breach  and tang being color case hardened. It was in very good shape and there was good finish left to tell the tail. A couple of the instructors at the Bowling Green gun smithing classes were having the discussion about original rifles finishes

[Chuck Burrows]

per Don Stith

'The few Hawkens in good enough condition to see original barrel finish are blued. I like the color I get by slow rust brown, followed by boiling the barrel in water.

The proper finish for the other iron parts,trigger guard,buttplate , lock,etc is case hardened. Not the highly colored case of modern firearms but a mottled grey case that some of the early makers called forge casing.
The barrel, rib and thimbles were blue. The breech and tang were cased as well as the lock, butt plate, trigger guard, trigger bar, entry thimble and nose cap. Not the highly colored case of modern firearms but a mottled grey case that some of the early makers called forge casing.

The blue is fairly dark and may be slow rust blue rather than charcoal (NOTE: makes sense since rust blue would have been the more common method for the period during which the Hawken shop was in business). If doing the rust blue, don't overpolish or you get too bright a color. It is not the deep translucent blue seen on European guns. I usually just do a satin brown followed by boiling in water to duplicate the color

[eddillon]

Thanks for the information.  I am set up for rust bluing.  I think that is the way to go.  As for the case hardened finish, I am open for suggestions.

[Clark Badgett]

From what Chuck posted I would say to case harden per normal with Casenit (or what ever is available now)  and steel wool the metal down to a somewhat even gray color.

Would this be what we now call French Gray?

[eddillon]

I am fortunate enough to have a coffee can full of the original Kasenit.  Will give it a try.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8848.0

Upon reading Don's evalluation of the original finish on Hawken rifles, I attempted to reproduce that look on this rifle.  I used a strange green powder called "Hard and Tuff" - an industrial case hardening compound used in saw mills here in the north - and it gives that forge case grey look.  And hard it is.  A file will not cut it.

[Bob Roller]

Ed,
With Kasenit,quench in water heavily loaded with Potassium nitrate and you should have som nice colors occur.
Potassium Nitrate should be available at any decent size drug store with no restrictions.

Bob Roller

[d-a]

Ed,
With Kasenit,quench in water heavily loaded with Potassium nitrate and you should have som nice colors occur.
Potassium Nitrate should be available at any decent size drug store with no restrictions.

Bob Roller

Mr Roller

Would potassium nitrate work with other case hardening compounds? Kasenit is no longer available

Thank you.
Doug

[eddillon]

Ed,
With Kasenit,quench in water heavily loaded with Potassium nitrate and you should have som nice colors occur.
Potassium Nitrate should be available at any decent size drug store with no restrictions.

Bob Roller

I like the idea of plenty of potassium nitrate but you must understand that I live in California.  I am sure the State of California would consider each grain of KNO3 to a WMD and throw me in jail.

[Acer Saccharum]

Make some steel boxes, and charcoal pack that parts. You can get surprisingly good colors with charcoal pack, with some bone and horn charcoal added.

Take the pack to a higher temp, say 1500F, and the colors will not be so bright, tending toward grey. From what Chuck says, this would be more appropriate.

[d-a]

Tom

Can you do that with out a heat treating oven or forge? I have an oxy-acetylene torch. 

d-a

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I set up a number of fire bricks to make an enclosed area - sort of - and used a big spreader tip on a oxy/acet torch.  When the part was orange, I immersed the steel into the compound, and then brought it back up to temp for a bit of a soak.  I repeated the process twice with each piece, and then dropped it into water at room temperature.  For the lock plate, I blocked it with a 1/4" thick steel plate with spacers between.  I wish I had an oven...

[Bob Roller]

Doug,
I tried it with Cherry Red and got an unattractive gray colr. Hard it was,pretty it was not.

Bob Roller

[d-a]

Doug,
I tried it with Cherry Red and got an unattractive gray colr. Hard it was,pretty it was not.

Bob Roller

Thank you. That what I have and use presently.

Doug

[JPK]

Mix about a table spoon of Kasenite with a quart of lump charcoal broke into 1/4" chunks and use this to pack harden parts . You should get colors like these. Compare this to the Hawkens in "Peacemakers" by R.L. Wilson.

[eddillon]

Mix about a table spoon of Kasenite with a quart of lump charcoal broke into 1/4" chunks and use this to pack harden parts . You should get colors like these. Compare this to the Hawkens in "Peacemakers" by R.L. Wilson.

This looks good to me, JPK.  Can you describe your packing and heating technique?

[Clark Badgett]

Mix about a table spoon of Kasenite with a quart of lump charcoal broke into 1/4" chunks and use this to pack harden parts . You should get colors like these. Compare this to the Hawkens in "Peacemakers" by R.L. Wilson.

Is that gray casehardening? Looks more like color case.

[JPK]

Clark B
It is color case as these came out but you can get more or less color depending on your process. The less charcoal you use the more gray. Also note that these parts were not polished and I was mostly after the surface hardening. There were about 30 parts these span the range of coloring. Also in Wilson's book the lock and breech of the Hawken rifle on page 46 & 47 appear to me to have faded color and patterns on them.
eddillon
The pack is done in a steel box with a steel lid placed on top. I fill the box full insuring that parts are at least 1/2" apart and 1" from sides or bottom and at least 1 1/2" below the top. These parts were brought to 1375F in an oven for 1 1/2 hour then quenched in a 30 gallon barrel of water that had been filled by bucket just before quench. Please note that beauty wasn't a goal but a side experiment. I'd do some nice work too when needed. I do believe that this can be done even in a good camp fire and will try that some time soon. I will go for a nice orange glow to the box.