Restoration work needed on antique rifle.

[hawknknife]

Gentlemen:  I hope someone can offer some help.  I have a pattern 1858  enfield, two band rifle, bar on band made by W.W. Greener. This .577 rifle has a silver disc inlaid in the stock engraved where presented to a sergt in 1861 as a prize in a shooting match.
    Here's my problem.  Some long time ago, someone mounted a tang sight on the top area of the comb.  The comb was lowered starting about 5 inches in front of the butt plate tang, at an angle to where the comb would meet the wrist.  I need  someone to replace the cut out section of wood.
     I contacted Louie Parker as he has helped me in the past but his "plate is full" and he's just not doing as much as he used to.  Louie can add wood where missing and make the joint so well and aged, it just can't be detected. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                        "hawknknife"  Carl Merck in the Deep South

[HIB]

Carl,  There is a southern gentleman who has an excellent knowledge of Civil War era guns. I'm told he has the 'touch' when it comes to restoration as well. Contact me directly at the e-mail listed in my profile and I will provide name and contact info.

You are right about Louie Parker. A fine friend but a busy artisan. Hope to hear from you. Especially if it helps.  HIB

[baxterdavid]

Can you upload pic of it

[hawknknife]

Baxter David, Thanks for the response.  Yes, I can take some pics and upload them and please let me know what you think...Carl

[hawknknife]

[Dave B]

I went looking for Creedmore rifles and came up with an un modified version of the same rifle I believe
one assumes the rifle was modified after the award as a prize. It looks like it went through several modifications for the tang sight. I cant imagine it being given as a prize with the stock as it is now.

[GrampaJack]

I don't think you can automatically assume that the stock was changed after it was presented. On the other hand, if it was changed later could it not be that the owner had it changed to use as a target rifle?  He must have had some talent as a shooter in order to win the award.  Personally I would do a lot of research on the owner and his record of shooting in matches before I changed the gun. Would it not be possible that there exist images of him after the war with the gun as winner (or participant) in matches? Just a thought. Jack

[eddillon]

I emphatically second that, GrampaJack!

[eddillon]

Hawknknife, if you still have the rear sight, could you please post a picture?

[RAT]

Some matches in the past were shot laying down on your back with the feet towards the target. From the position of where the rear sight was mounted, I'm guessing it was used as such. I'm not saying originally... it could have been modified for the shooting position later... but that's what the sight position indicates to me.

[mr. no gold]

The modification of the comb appears to have been done professionally, and as Jack commented above it would perhaps be wise to take your time on it, research it, and in the end maybe do nothing to it than to replace the missing sight platform. It could even be, somewhat remotely, I concede, that this was made the way it is on special order. The stock finish looks very consistant and good from the photos which could point the way to the gun's origins in its exisitng state. Whatever, your decision may be, thank you for bringing it around for viewing.
Dick

[GrampaJack]

I just noticed the cut out at the bottom of the lock mortise.  I'll bet that lock has been altered, probably an adjustable sear and could be the trigger too.  Have you pulled the lock? Thanks, Jack

[hawknknife]

Gentlemen, Thank you for the information. I had thought the rifle may have been manufactured with the comb removed and tang sight installed.  As a matter of fact, I can see where a total of four tang sights were installed and removed.  The holes are plugged with ebony which make me think "British". There are two that were installed on top of the wrist where we would expect them to be.  One of the holes is offset and I have seen English vernier tangs with the offset screw mounting.  The stock does not look to be refinished and the silver disc has never been sanded.
    I've never pulled the lock and I thought the missing wood at the base is just chipped wood but I will take a closer look.  No, I don't have the sight that was in the inlet and the holes seem to be 2.30 center to center.
    The bore is about perfect and has the 25 gage mark on side of breech for .577 caliber.
I have not done any research on the names but feel sure it is British.  Anyone who can help me with research would be very much appreciated...Thanks..Carl

[eddillon]

I would hazard a guess and say yes to being Brit owned and awarded.  L.S.V.R.?  L.S. Volunteer Rifles?  I know we have some British folks on ALR.  Any of them want to chime in?

[hammer]

Likely the London & Scottish Volunteer Rifles raised in 1859 by the famous Lord Elcho as their Lt. Colonel.  Elcho was the paramount target shooter of his time and a major influence on the rise of precision long range target shooting in the UK.   As well as the prime mover for the Volunteer movement itself.  His men, and certainly his officers would have been crackshots and had the very best equipment.  A man of great skill, determination and influence. The Elcho Shield is a competition started in 1860 with eight man teams from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.  Still shot today at Bisley at 1,000, 1,100 and 1,200 yards.  Won by England in 2013.
This rifle is, without doubt, an important historical artifact.  I can't advise myself but I would want to take good advice if it were mine before such a restoration to ensure I wasn't devaluing the piece both financially and historically.
There is a London and Scottish Regiment Museum.  They might be able to help regarding the names on the shield.  Or perhaps the (British) National Rifle Association based at Bisley.
Good luck.  One lucky owner.

[hawknknife]

Peter, Thanks you for the great information.  I will see if the sources you have given can provide any detailed info on the match or the owner.. Are you in England?  Thanks...Carl