kits for rifle making

[JPK]

Your advice on a kit to build a rifle for elk hunting would be appreciated. What I'm looking for is any kit that is as well along as a Lyman great plains rifle but of better quality. Style is wide open but a few points I prefer are, percussion, barrel of 30" or more, set triggers, 50 calibre or more, and that's about it. I'm fairly experienced in building but want to get something to build quickly for a gift. I'll be looking at sites like TOTW and others but you that have built these kits I'm sure have opinions on what went together well.

[galamb]

You can group kits into 3 general levels of completeness.

Traditions might still have some of their kits available. With those the kit is at the level where everything is pretty much finished as far as fit/inletting and you simply bolt the parts in - so like getting a rifle that was simply "disassembled" after being completed - you simply apply the finish.

The Lyman kit you are obviously familiar with. Some minor fitting/finishing is/was required - a bit of wood needs to be removed here or there, but definitely that is well within the skill level of most people who can spew off the names of various tools sitting on a bench.

That's kinda where the "less work/less skill intensive" kits end.

Kits from Track, Pecatonica, MBS, Chambers and various others are "builders kits". They require significant work to finish.

A "pre-carve" will be roughly shaped towards the final style and the barrel will be inlet (but generally not the tang) and the ramrod channel will be cut/hole drilled and probably the cheek piece will be shaped somewhat. Most find that they still have to move the barrel back a little (with a straight barrel), to get things lined up properly.

Alternately, you may select a blank and then have the barrel inlet and ramrod channel/hole done as a value added service. This is the more typical route if you plan on using a swamped barrel aside from the very limited offerings available from existing pre-carves.

A "pre-inlet" will generally (in addition to above) have the lock and trigger inlet to 90-95% of final and  on some patterns, have the inlet for the butt plate "close".

But make no mistake, these are meant for the "builder" to expel significant effort and time.

Here is some quotes from some of the suppliers when addressing the "how long does it take to build" questions:

"Typically 40 hours of skilled labor"

"The average assembly time for someone with previous experience is 15 to 30 hours (excluding any art-work and finishing time.)"

Note "skilled labor" and "previous experience". I can tell you from a personal perspective that you can multiply those estimates by 4 or 5 times on your first few builds. Plus add in significant extra hours first studying and trying to understand some of the processes you will need to use.

Not trying to scare you away at all, but if you are looking for a higher quality "kit" than what Lyman provides, with a similar level of "completeness", I am not aware of any that exist. It kinda goes from "a bit of work" to a "whole lot of work" with nothing in between.

That gray area is generally filled by semi-custom (TVM as an example) or "in the white" builds from various builders.

[Acer Saccharum]

I have a problem with the word 'Kit'. Kits in other fields, such as model cars, boat, etc, conjures up a certain expectation. But it's different in the longrifle culture.

The purchaser's concept: he might think of parts that all fit together, and just requires finishing. Much like a model airplane, very little other than a little trimming here and there, some finishing, for a very nice result.

The manufacturer's concept of a kit: a set of parts to make an historically accurate representation of a long rifle. Brass parts need filing and polishing, barrel might need some positioning thru further inletting, lock that needs inletting, polishing and tuning. Stock needs to have some wood removed to slim it down to correct proportions. A kit like this can easily be 100 hours by a competent builder. First timers can add some hours of study and practice.

Every makes assumptions. The purchaser sometimes thinks he's getting something that will go together in a few days. The manufacturer has always supplied his kits as a parts set, and he assumes the builder has the skill level to assemble it. Neither one is wrong, but it is good business for both parties to investigate each other about skill level and expectations, so that neither one gets disappointed. A happy customer will do return business; that's good for both parties.


Blah, blah, blah....I should just be quiet now.

[moleeyes36]

Here is some quotes from some of the suppliers when addressing the "how long does it take to build" questions:

"Typically 40 hours of skilled labor"

"The average assembly time for someone with previous experience is 15 to 30 hours (excluding any art-work and finishing time.)"

Note "skilled labor" and "previous experience". I can tell you from a personal perspective that you can multiply those estimates by 4 or 5 times on your first few builds. Plus add in significant extra hours first studying and trying to understand some of the processes you will need to use.

Graham,

I think yours is a very good estimate of the time required to put together a so called kit.  Of course a person can turn $1,000 worth of parts into a $200 gun by rushing through the process.  That'll make you cry in your beer for a fact.

Mole Eyes

[PPatch]

Given your stated need of a pretty well finished "kit" why not consider a rifle in the white where everything but the wood and metal finishing are complete?

dp

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Dixie Gun Works sells some Pedersoli percussion rifle kits that go together extremely quickly.  All inletting is done. 

[Larry Luck]

As I read the thread, an "in the white" rifle seemed like a good alternative to me, also.

I'v spent time looking at the websites but never have seen the rifles, but Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders and Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading do in the white as does Tip Curtis.

Slimming down and finishing an "in the white" rifle would seem to be a good start.

Good luck with your project.

Larry Luck

[kaintuck]

I have never figured out how they can do these rifles in 40hrs
Truth is, like above comments.....NO TOTW or TVM etc 'kit' is that easy! Get Dixie gun works web site and get a Brown Bess or something along those lines for your rifle....UNLESS.....you like working in wood!
Metal finishing...etc....

And a warning....when you do one....it's just the beginning.....there will be others!
Marc

[JPK]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I wasn't aware of in the white rifles.
Here is a photo of my first rifle made many years ago. I've only made three muzzle loaders other then kits since then.
James

[Acer Saccharum]

James, if you can build that, you're already well on your way.