Author Topic: slotted screws  (Read 6606 times)

Offline Curt Larsen

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slotted screws
« on: April 05, 2014, 04:00:43 PM »
It seems that every screw I've ever used has a different width slot.  I've used my old set of Grace hollow ground screwdrivers for ages, but sometimes none of them fit right and I have to file those screwdrivers to fit.  In the past, I've chipped one of the tipis of these and the maker nicely replaced it for me.  So my question is what type of screwdrivers do you guys use?  And, what is the most effective way to cut a good slot if needed without buggering up the slot?

Offline flehto

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 04:30:30 PM »
As I visit hadware stores and other tool outlets, I'm always on the lookout for wood handled screwdrivers....some cheap and some moderatly priced.  Irregarless of the price, have only bought 1 SD that had improperly hardened and tempered steel...too soft.

As the need arises, the blade thicknesses are hollow ground to fit various width slots...some of my making and some on purchased screws.  The blade  widths are  also ground for different sized screws.  Through the years have amassed a whole lot of SDs and can now usually find one that "fits" and doesn't need grinding, but  there are still some exceptions when an "oddball" slotted screw is used.
 
These " custom" SDs along w/  " Kasiniting" the screw heads and using a lot of care when  screwing in or out, all but eliminates "buggered up" screrw slots. .....Fred

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 04:36:15 PM »
I use the gunsmith screwdrivers from Brownell's. Interchangeable tips, heat treated, tough as nails. The bits are hollow ground, so the blade doesn't tend to climb out of the screw slot.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Larry Luck

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 04:56:37 PM »
Curt,

Does the screwdriver inquiry have anything to do with the lock and buttplate you brought to the Williamsburg show?

(Hint:  Post photos)

Good to see you.

Larry

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 05:54:36 PM »
Screw slotting files can be had from Brownell's too.

I mount the file in a jeweler's saw frame to hold it under tension and to keep the slot from woggling all over the place.

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 06:12:31 PM »
You can make your own hollow ground screwdrivers using O2 drill rod and the sanding drum that comes with a Dremel tool accessory kit.  Mount the drum in your drill press and grind away.
Dave Kanger

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Offline okieboy

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 07:09:14 PM »
 I really like the jewlers frame for holding the file idea, it had never occured to me.
Okieboy

Offline Curt Larsen

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 07:19:17 PM »
Larry, fortunately I was able to install those newly engraved parts on my jaeger without difficulty.  I was worried about the screw driver slipping.  As soon as I get some photos of the engraved parts I'll post them.
Curt

I like the idea of the file in the jewelers saw frame.  I'll also get out my Brownell's catalog.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2014, 07:24:46 PM »
Just late yesterday afternoon, I prepared the eight little screws to secure the barrel key escutcheons to the Hawken build currently on the bench.  Having cut the countersink holes, I could see that the little screws were not a perfect mate so I set them in my forging plate and gently taped them down to exactly fill the countersink.  This of course, closed over the slots, but that's ok, because they were a little 'coarse' anyway.  I have a length of 32 tpi hack saw blade that I've ground the set off both sides, and this I mounted in a vise grip with the cut on the pull, and I re-cut the slots.  Almost always, a screw's slot needs to be cleaned up and deepened so that there is still a slot remaining after I dress the head off flush.  I will steal Tom's great idea and use my fret saw to hold the slot slitter in the future.
And like Tom, I also use Brownell's 44 piece screw driver set.  So far, I have not been stumped with a screw I could not find a bit to fit.
I also case harden all screws during final preparation, so that the new owner will not have issues with buggering up the slots.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

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Offline Artificer

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2014, 07:39:23 PM »
In 1973, I was issued a set of Grace wood handled screwdrivers  as part of my initial Tool Box Issue to become an RTE (National Match or NM) Armorer.  The unfortunate thing was those screwdrivers rarely if ever fit the Military or Commercial guns we worked on.  

So I began hunting through Flea Markets, yard sales and even antique stores to find early 20th century and late 19th century screwdrivers that I would anneal, file to fit and case harden for almost every screw in every gun I worked on.  I especially liked to get small 19th century cabinet makers screwdrivers to fit for every screw slot size for working original and reproduction NSSA guns I worked on.  This followed what many folks considered a "time honored" gunsmithing tradition, but in reality was nothing more that what gunsmiths had been forced to do for generations and it was a PITA !!!!  No doubt it taught Apprentice Gunsmiths to file FLAT and accurately and was great for that, BUT making screwdrivers takes time away from actual gun work.   I wound up with dozens of screwdrivers and had to separate them in different tool boxes by the "era" of guns I worked on.  

Now the original 18th century gunsmiths did not have to make NEARLY as many "turnscrews" (original name for a screwdriver) for their work.  When they made their own screws, it looks like they had from maybe two to four sizes of files to make the slots and then they only needed a very few turnscrews.  Of course, if they bought imported locks, they would have made turnscrews to fit the screws in those locks.  I have also been informed that some or many of those 18h century screws were "V" shaped and that would have made making turnscrews for them easier.  However, the 18th and early 19th century guns I've worked on were primarily British, French and German and most of them had parallel sided slots - so perhaps "V" shaped slots were mainly American?

The screwdriver "problem" became much, MUCH easier after Brownells began selling their Magna Tip Screwdriver kits.  I was gifted a "Super Set" by Reid Coffeld of Brownells when he was a student of mine in an NRA Gunsmithing Seminar I taught.  I then bought the "Upgrade Kit" to make it the "Master Set."
You rarely ever run  into a screw slot size they don't cover, but if you do, it is easy to anneal, file and fit and caseharden a slightly larger size when you do.  These sets are shown here:
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/screwdrivers-sets/magna-tip-sets/magna-tip-super-sets-trade--prod417.aspx

Before I went along as the Team Armourer for the U.S. International Muzzleloading Team to the World Championships in Wedgnock, UK in 1996, I decided to buy the "Super Thin" Bit set for those TINY screw slots that Europeans so dearly seemed to love.  WOW, was I glad I had as it gave me the screwdrivers I needed to work an original German Jaeger Rifle Lock and an original Nicholas Boutet.circa. 1810 Saw Handled Flintlock Dueling/Target Pistol.  
This link shows that set:
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/screwdrivers-sets/magna-tip-bit-sets/magna-tip-thin-bit-set-prod44342.aspx

Now, I have never forgotten how expensive it could be (and remains so 40 years later) to buy or make all the tools one needs to work on guns.  A "problem" the hobbyist or beginning smith runs into is they often suggest buying the "starter kits" made by Brownells or others.  Well, what does THAT give you?  A bunch of bits that often don't fit the sizes of screw slots you need!!  FORTUNATELY if you order Brownell's Catalog, they sell the different size bits individually by fractional size!!!!  THAT way, you can order the EXACT size bits for the lock or locks and screws you have or work on!!  At under $3.00 to no more than about $ 5.00 per bit, that saves you a LOT of time buying and making your own screwdrivers!  As time goes on and you need different size bits, you can add them to make a set you actually need.  

Don't get me wrong, I probably have used every size of bit in the Master Set and Super Thin bit set at least once over the last 30 years, BUT there are many bits in my sets that are 20 to 30 years old I almost never use.  If I were starting out today, I probably would only buy the size bits I actually needed and when I needed them.

Gus

P.S.  LOVE Tom's idea of putting the screw slot file in a small frame saw.  Should have thought of that years ago.  Grin.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 07:40:31 PM by Artificer »

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2014, 08:17:33 PM »
My Brownell 44 piece screwdriver set is all in a can. I shake, shake, shake, until I find the bit I need.  :D
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Artificer

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2014, 08:24:55 PM »
My Brownell 44 piece screwdriver set is all in a can. I shake, shake, shake, until I find the bit I need.  :D

ROTFLMAO!!  That was GREAT Acer!  I use two of the Brownell's Cases to store my bits, but I still store special or special made bits in the open section.  However, I have found about every two months I have to go through the box I use most and put them in their correct holes.  I swear they like to wander to do "other things" when the case is closed and then just jump into the open hole nearest them when I go to open the case.   ;D

mattdog

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2014, 12:28:36 AM »
" I really like the jewlers frame for holding the file idea, it had never occured to me."

I do too.  Acer is a genius.

 ;D

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2014, 12:54:13 AM »
Taylor,
I use a miniature hacksaw with the set ground off both sides of a 64 teeth per in blade
that is about 6" long and the saw frame is made with a blade tensioner.After the initial
slotting with the saw,I use a small knife file with a very acute angle to get where I want to
go with the slot.All my lock screws are done this way and the look good at least to me.

Bob Roller

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2014, 01:05:00 AM »
BE CAREFUL with that little file. It's so thin there is only one side to it and brittle as glass.I never had any real luck with them.Just clumsy I guess but it prompted me to come up with the miniature (Great Neck) hacksaws and altering the blades either by grinding or using diamond coated files.

Bob Roller

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: slotted screws
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2014, 05:03:53 AM »
Brownells has published a few books on Gunsmith Kinks or some such, I wonder if Acers  file in the saw frame shouldnt be listed in one of those books. Great idea.