new box

[Elnathan]

Roy Underhill's book the Woodright's Shop, had a good chapter on cutting dovetails. The first dovetailed box I made was pretty crude. I have it somewhere on a back shelf where no one will see it with nails in it. 

Another good book is Tage Frid's book on joinery - it has very detailed instructions plus he shows a method of fixing errors.

Elnathan,

Is this the one you mean?  http://www.amazon.com/Tage-Frid-Teaches-Woodworking-Book/dp/B000PRTQEE

Gus

Forgot to check back on the thread. Yes, that is the one I meant.

[Artificer]

[

Elnathan,

Is this the one you mean?  http://www.amazon.com/Tage-Frid-Teaches-Woodworking-Book/dp/B000PRTQEE

Gus

Forgot to check back on the thread. Yes, that is the one I meant.

Thank you.  Though I don't have this book, further investigation I've done informs me Tage believed in making the pins before the tails, while most people on the internet seem to like to do the tails first.  Sounds like this is a book I will have to get to see why he felt that way.
Gus

[Artificer]

David R,

May I ask what the construction detail is of the bottom of the chest?  It seems to me like this is a "6 board chest," but I'm not sure.  Did you cut a groove near the bottom of the chest all around for the wooden bottom or did you perhaps nail one board on the bottom?  Also, did you put sacrificial battens on the bottom of the chest? 

I would very much appreciate any more information you would like to share.
Gus

[David R. Pennington]

There is a groove cut around inside bottom of box. I made a raised panel for the bottom and fitted it in groove. I scored the groove with cutting gauge and routed it with a router plane and chisel. The panel I raised with rabbet plane and jack plane. I don't have a panel raising plane.

[Artificer]

David,

Thanks for the further info.  REALLY fine job you did on that box.
Gus

[Kermit]

...further investigation I've done informs me Tage believed in making the pins before the tails, while most people on the internet seem to like to do the tails first.

Pins first, tails first--both sequences have their practitioners. Same result. Mostly it has to do with where you learned and who taught you. There are a lot of other variations too: angles, spacings, widths. And we won't go into the various methods involving machines, will we?
 

[David R. Pennington]

Well I got in a habit of doing tails first. If you do half blind dovetails it seems easier to me to cut the tails and then use them to lay out for pins. It would be real hard to do it the other way on half blinds I think, so just seems more natural to me to lay out the tails first, but whatever works for you.

[Artificer]

...further investigation I've done informs me Tage believed in making the pins before the tails, while most people on the internet seem to like to do the tails first.

Pins first, tails first--both sequences have their practitioners. Same result. Mostly it has to do with where you learned and who taught you. There are a lot of other variations too: angles, spacings, widths. And we won't go into the various methods involving machines, will we?
 

David,

Back in the early to mid 70's, I saw quite a few 18th and early 19th dovetailed wood boxes in the Antique Shops around Fredericksburg, Va. (The dating of the boxes came from the hardware on them and some construction details.)  Only a small number had attached locks and the construction was often somewhat crude.  I was surprised at how "large" the tails and especially the pins were in the boxes (with no locks)  compared to other period furniture.  I was informed they were low cost boxes made for shipping or even storage in the homes of the less affluent.  Maybe they originally were shipping/transport boxes and then used in some homes for storage and that's why they survived?  Have you ever seen/ heard anything like that? 

In a very large almost warehouse sized Antique store between Fredericksburg and Richmond, they had a bunch of chests and boxes and some dated back to the 17th century, when I visited it in the 1980s.  (This place carried more higher end Antiques than most of the shops in Fredericksburg.)  The boxes there that had 18th century features and hardware were much more uniform spacing and the tails and pins were not nearly as large as on the ones mentioned in the paragraph above - though it was easy to see they were hand cut.  Some of these were definitely tool boxes/chests.

I am planning a pine 18th tool chest that is not as large as a Cabinet Maker's chest, though I will be carrying a lot of steel or iron tools in it.  I'm thinking of using 3/4 " pine.  So, yes, I am interested in what size dovetails and pins should be used to make a stronger box.
Gus



 

[David R. Pennington]

I always look over construction of old boxes and chests when I see them in antique stores. I see some occasionally that are very rude in construction, nailed together, no dovetails, with forged iron hardware to add strength in critical areas. I saw one recently constructed in this way with hand forged nails and straps to reinforce corners and bottom. I would assume these were made for same reasons, probably meant as shipping containers. I believe it had snipe hinges. 

[Artificer]

I always look over construction of old boxes and chests when I see them in antique stores. I see some occasionally that are very rude in construction, nailed together, no dovetails, with forged iron hardware to add strength in critical areas. I saw one recently constructed in this way with hand forged nails and straps to reinforce corners and bottom. I would assume these were made for same reasons, probably meant as shipping containers. I believe it had snipe hinges. 

That sounds remarkably like the earliest 17th century tool box shown as drawings in "The Toolbox Book: A Craftsman's Guide to Tool Chests, Cabinets, and Storage Systems" by Jim Tolpin.  The corner boards all had one long angled rabbet joint (sort of like a long half dovetail) that fit into the one on the board beside it.  This type of joint could easily be made by a special plane or even just a chisel and mallet.  Since these corner joints were not as strong as dovetails, they were nailed and had two "L" shaped support straps  going around each corner.  I have seen some original 17th century sea chests made the same way.

From my studies of 17th and 18th century furniture and their construction, many authors pointed out that many 17th century furniture pieces and boxes were made by panel construction and with more mortise and tenon joinery because making thin saw blades was still so expensive.  in the 18th century, advancements in the production of better steel and a method to roll the steel thinner came along to make hand saws more practical and affordable.  Hence, more furniture and other items were made with dovetails. 

Gus