Author Topic: Dillin & Authenticity  (Read 2806 times)

Offline JCKelly

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Dillin & Authenticity
« on: May 13, 2014, 02:34:01 AM »
Captain John Dillin's book, The Kentucky Rifle well if you haven't read it you don't know nuthin' real about Kentucky rifles.

I really do not want to know this, but someone otta ask.

Since I was 10 years old I have assumed that if a rifle was pictured in Dillin then that rifle must be a Real Honest Antique Kentucky Rifle. After all, "new" made rifles, and/or flat out fakes are a contemporary phenomenon.

Aren't they?

Hmmm . . . decade or two back whilst at Collectors Firearms, Houston, I looked at a very fine flintlock rifle. They said it had been made in the early 20th century, so was not exactly being sold as an antique. Nice gun, though.

In 2005 at the MAAC show I chose to "get in touch with the ten-year old in me"  I bought rifle #3 in Plates 93 & 94, pages 83-84, from the St. John Collection. Been in Michigan since the 1950's, verbal history. Seems to be an upper Susquehanna rifle. Near new condition, no indication it is other than a Real Rifle. Well, the barrel is smoothbore about .44 caliber. And although the gun is in very fine condition, the lock has been shot so much  the hammer (frizzen, to some) required to be refaced by brazing on a new bit of steel. Oh well, this is one of the rifles I have drooled over since Dad let me read his Dillin one hot Pennsylvania summer when HST was givin' them h--. So I'm sure since this rifle is in the Honored Dillin it must be correct.

Right? ? ? ?

Now I see that Thomaston Place Auction Galleries, 51 Atlantic Hwy, Thomaston, Maine Lot 303 is rifle #3, Plate 14 of Dillin. "From the collection of John Laidacker, via Paul C. Boehret."

The buttstock has been stretched, Thomaston says "with oak and bone filler", the trigger guard looks like mid-19th century Midwest, e.g. Ohio, and it has a CAP box, not a patchbox. Well, in Dillin there is only a hole where the capbox had been, now it has a nice mid-19th century brass capbox inserted. Were this rifle not in Dillin we'd all pick it apart as made up from a couple different rifles.   

But its in Dillin, man!

Wonder just how long people have been making up Kentuckies? Might be a good idea NOT to do as I did, accepting anything from this 1924 bible as The Real Thing?

Does anyone really want to know?

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Dillin & Authenticity
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 03:10:04 AM »
JCKelly,  you might want to add something  to this thread.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30865.0

Offline JTR

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Re: Dillin & Authenticity
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 03:11:52 AM »
Well, in another thread I asked if the poster had read Dillins comments regarding fakes and forgeries... So how about you, have you taken the time to read it?

And you might want to look a little more closely at picture # 3, plate 14. Looks like the same cap box there, just dirty...

Curiously, John
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 03:16:48 AM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Dillin & Authenticity
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 10:44:18 PM »
OK, OK, JTR so it has been years since I read the forgery section of Dillin. And I did not look so closely as I might have at what is indeed a capbox on picture #3, Plate 14

The one on auction I still believe used a 19th century capbox - not a modern repro with the butt lengthened for some reason.

I'm still a bit uneasy about rifle #3, Plates 93 & 94, pages 83-84 What the $#*!, I probably liked it just fine at age ten so I'll just not worry (much) about it.









Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Dillin & Authenticity
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 11:25:49 PM »
I have not followed this thread word for word, but whose to say the cap box on this rifle was not
added mid 19th century and the stock lengthened during the working period of the rifle.  Is that
somehow bastardizing the rifle?  I wouldn't consider this "making up kentuckies"  Still say this rifle
is weird, but I won't say it wasn't done in the period.
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