Author Topic: Drop for a fowler  (Read 12047 times)

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2014, 08:58:35 AM »
Mike

The wire work on gun number 4 is original  which dates to approximately 1760.
Feltwad

Offline Kevin Houlihan

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2014, 03:55:51 PM »
 When you guys are talking about pitch, are you referring to the toe position in relation to the heel?  And I take it if you stood the gun on the floor with the barrel vertical with the heel of the butt stock on the ground, good pitch would have the toe off of the floor and bad pitch would have the toe closer to or touching the floor?  What are the pro's and con's of each configuration?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks,
Kevin

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2014, 07:45:09 PM »
Excellent question Kevin.

With the barrel against the door jam, and the heel on the floor, measure the distance of the toe off the floor.  that is what I was referring to as pitch.  This is a more useful dimension that putting the butt flat on the floor and measuring the distance the muzzle is from the wall, because of the variability of barrel length.

The angle of the butt is profound when shooting the piece.  Take a Tulle trade gun for a vivid example.  These guns: the reproductions at least, have an exaggerated pitch - the toe is a long distance off the floor.  The consequence of this is that when you fire the gun, the stock slides under recoil upwards on your shoulder, and the comb slaps your cheek bone.  All other architecture of the butt seems to be fine - drop at comb, length of pull, etc, yet the guns are not shooter friendly.
Now take a Long Land Pattern of the King's Musquet:  the 1st model Brown Bess.  This smoothbore has a pitch that keeps the butt against the shoulder upon firing it, and even with dimensions similar to the Tulle in terms of drop at comb and length of pull, the musket doesnot slap you in the cheek bone, in spite of a much heavier ball and more propellant.  The same cannot be said for 2nd and third model Besses which have similar pitches but higher combs - they were not meant to be aimed at the target, but I digress.
My brother Daryl has a 20 gauge smoothbore of English design whose pitch is if anything, not sufficient.  That is the toe contacts the floor first rather than the heel.  But it is possible to shoot this gun with huge charges of powder without bruising your cheek, because the opposite effect happens:  the butt slides down and away from your face upon firing the gun.  This phenomenon is hardly noticeable in practice, yet the effect is profound.

Hope this helps clarify.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline David Rase

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2014, 09:16:52 PM »
Taylor,
Great information on the effects of pitch.  I never gave it a lot of thought.  I did a quick search online for "shotgun pitch" and came away with some good information about fit in general.  Even though the information was for modern cartridge shotguns there were some great takeaways for muzzleloaders as well.  This topic on shotgun fit up has been real interesting to follow.  I look forward to more in-depth conversation.
David   

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2014, 11:21:18 PM »
...like at Heffley this summer, eh?
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Kevin Houlihan

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2014, 01:50:27 AM »
So...a butt architecture like a Southern rifle where the toe touches the ground quite a bit before the heel would be better for a large caliber, light weight rifle/smoothbore forcing the butt to slide down away from you in recoil...assuming the butt plate is wide enough to distribute pain  the If I understand that correctly.  :'(
Thanks,
Kevin

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2014, 02:53:20 AM »
Once you start going from a fowler plate to a crescent one, all bets are off!  The fowler plate is held hard against the shoulder meat between your pec and bicep muscles, not out on the arm like a deeply crescented SMR, or a Hawken, for that matter.  Altogether a different critter.  For one thing, you wouldn't likely be building a SMR in 20, 12 or 10 bore.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Kevin Houlihan

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Re: Drop for a fowler
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2014, 04:02:23 AM »
Taylor - Got it.  My guess is that an even slight crescent would tent to hold the butt from rising up and whacking your jaw or cheek bone ;)  I actually shoot a 20 Bore now and even with 95 grains, it's not bad to shoot - with the flat butt plate.
Thank you,
Kevin