Another J.J. Henry, Boulton rifle

[Curt Larsen]

A friend has asked me to research a Henry Boulton rifle that has been in his family for generations.  I'll post some photos when I figure out the new Photobucket format.  Anyway this is a decidedly different piece I think.  The lock is a late flint lock converted to percussion.  It is marked J.J. Henry and Son with Boulton underneath.  The strange thing is that the barrel is marked P Gonter on the top flat with and has some crude caricature of a human figure at the breech on the top flat.  The register mark for the breechplug is on top of the tang.  The P Gonter name on the top flat is in the characteristic block letters used on earlier rifles.  There is also a crude date of 1844 added to the flat which I suspect is when it was converted by someone.  The stock is plain maple with a brass patchbox and the usual hunters star on the cheekpiece.  The button to open the patchbox is missing but was mounted through the buttplate.  Any ideas you have on this piece would be great.  In the meantime, I'll try to get some decent photos and post them.
Curt

[fm tim]

It may not be a Henry firearm.  The gun maker and the  lock maker need not be the same person.

The Henry Gun Works sold individual parts to a number of prominent long rifle makers.

One Leonard Reedy long rifle has both a barrel and a lock marked :
                     J. J. HENRY
                     BOULTON

[blienemann]

Don't mean to speak for Curt, but IIRC Peter Gonter died years before any locks were marked J J Henry and Son.  Sounds like his barrel was reused later - by someone.  Hopefully the photos will help us with better speculation.  Bob

[JTR]

Lot's of locks were replaced over the years, but true, it's foolish to speculate without pictures.
John

[Curt Larsen]

OK, I finally got my act together and here are pics of the J.J. Henry & Son rifle:

First: here is the lock


Now the barrel:


and the muzzle


Now the buttplate:


The Patchbox:


Nosecap with rivet:


Cheekpiece:


sideplate:


Figure on top of barrel with date:


Here is the breechplug tang:


Give these a look and let me know what you think.  Right now I suspect a restock by someone who may have done this in 1844 (the date on the barrel).  The rifle is 57" overall in length.  It has a 42" octagonal barrel, one inch at the breech tapering to 7/8" at the muzzle.  The LOP is 13 3/4" and the drop is 2".  The barrel was held in by 4 wedges.  Two are missing with one of the slots filled in.  The thimbles are octagonal brass like the common Ted Cash ones.  If you look at the buttplate photo above, it shows two screws.  The aftermost is the normal location for a pin release for the patchbox.  The current release is derectly through the buttplate aft of the patchbox.  That spring is missing and the lid is held down with a wooden peg.  I had to get this back to the owner so no more photos.  Hope this helps more to document this one.
Curt

[mr. no gold]

Some more photos would be helpful. Would suggest that you include the stock profile, the patchbox and the obverse side. I see nothing by the exist photos to suggest a restock situation, but the nose cap looks a bit suspicious. Nice gun and the owner is fortunate to have it. Can you provide some numbers on the gun, too (length OA, barrel length, pull)? Thank you for showing this piece. It has some wonderful marks on the barrel.
Dick

[Shreckmeister]

I think I've seen that image of a man like on this barrel somewhere else and my failing memory says it
was indian related.

[Curt Larsen]

I added some dimensions on the overall length and barrel length on the note above with the photos.  I've had to get the rifle back to the owner.
Curt

[Buck]

Rob,
You saw it on the toe plate of my old Mauger rifle.
Buck

[Curt Larsen]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen this patchbox before?

[baxterdavid]

Great riffle. I have seen first time this type of gun.

[blienemann]

Curt,
Re patchbox, there's another P Gonter rifle p 177 in Chandler's book with same finial but flipped - different sideplates, and two very similar by J Graeff on p 183.  A Graeff rifle was shown online recently with same or similar finial.  These men went to same church, worked in same trade in small town, seems that they and others shared ideas and mounts.  All are variations on Lancaster daisy.
Bob

[JTR]

Actually that patchbox was really popular, especially the finale, and used all over the place!
I have a rifle with the same finale, and the page 177 Gonter style side plates.
John

[mr. no gold]

Nice rifle with some intestering art on the barrel and engraving on the patch box. Thank you for posting photos of the gun. Wondering how thick the butt stock is? There are some reasonably early aspects to the piece, and it appears that the comb has been lowered some, as well. Hard to tell without an in hand inspection if it has been restocked, or not. Thanks again.
Dick

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

I am thinking thwat "Indian Head" may just be an "Omega" symbol with a few dents that make it appear to be "eyes?? With magnificantion, it does appear more like a "face with "hair, eyes, mouth."
HUrricane

[Curt Larsen]

Thanks Dick.  I did measure the width of the buttplate but forgot to post it.  It is 1.25".
Curt

[mr. no gold]

Thank you for the reply Curt. Butt thickness is pretty standard for most later period gun, (post 1815), and since Peter Gonter died in 1818, barrel reuse is suggested here. The 'doll' marking and other barrel inscriptions could have been put on pretty much anytime during the life of the gun. However, to the point, Gonter made some pretty plain pieces, probably as an offshoot of his military contract rifles. I have seen several. There are things that appear to be corrrect on the gun: the cast sideplate, the cheek rest, the early style Lancaster patchbox, the large star inlay, and the old style rifling to name the obvious. The profile seems to have been altered along the comb line, and may have been very Lancaster like. It might be worthwhile to contact a seasoned collector to get an opinion on the wood. Hard to do over the net. But, I will not be surprised if it should turn out to be correct. Good luck!   

[DaveM]

Hi Curt, that is a neat rifle!  One possible clue the owner could check as to the originality of the current wood stock would be to look inside the patchbox to see if the current wood stock had a hole from above (to the original buttplate tang release button location) to allow the original release button from the top of the buttplate to be operated (versus the current release in the rear of the buttplate).  If the current stock was not made for the original release button to operate from its original location, chances are it was stocked later to replace a broken earlier stock.  Either way it is a really cool gun. 

[Curt Larsen]

Another thing occurred to me while reading about Peter Gonter.  He seems to have made many Indian trade rifles for the American Fur Company, Astor's attempt to move in on the Hudson Bay Comppany's lock on the fur trade after Lewis and Clark returned.  Has anyone ever seen one of the rifles he made for the America Fur Co. or the Indian trade guns?  It's just that funny looking figure on the top of the breech of this rifle that makes my curious.
Curt