Steel alloys for forging???

[cheyenne]

Ok guys, need some input.  Looking to try forging a trigger guard for a Southern Mountain rifle....looking at Speedy Metals, they have all kinds of flat and round stock, but they also list different alloys/carbon...1018, 1045, 12L14, etc......what would be good for forging a trigger guard?

Also, what is a good thickness for thimbles? I'm thinking .024(?)

Any input would be appreciated........worst case I mess up some decent metal and wind up buying cast parts, but I'd like to try.

[David Rase]

Order the 1018.  You can use it for everything except springs.  I have built trigger guards, butt plates double set triggers, side plates and pipes and thimbles using 1018.  For spring steel I use 1084 from the New jersey Steel Baron.
David

[oldone]

 Made a bunch from 1018-1020 ( no noticable difference) both work well hot or cold. Heat cherr and you can make pretzels with it.  

[Mark Elliott]

Any mild steel is good for mounts.    I picked up most of mine at Lowes.    Just buy the weldable steel. I prefer to use wrought iron these days .  Wrought iron is more forgiving to weld, but must be worked at a higher temp and is not safe to bend cold.   Also, you must be aware of the grain direction in wrought iron.   You should only bend wrought iron with the grain.    As to thimbles,  22 ga is fine for simple round.   i like .032 or .045 for thimbles I will file octagon or similar.   The originals where generally pretty thin.   I just use 22ga for one piece nose pieces.  

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

12L14 is wonderful stuff for making a lot of things like screws.  However, 12L14 is difficult/impossible to weld or to case harden, at least that is my experience.  So, if you are planning to do any welding or hardening with this project use the 1018, 1020 or other mild steel.  The only truly correct stuff for this purpose is wrought iron

[Hungry Horse]

 I make mine out of hot rolled mild steel. Heck you can almost cold forge it. Why over think everything? The old guns furniture was made from wrought iron for heavens sake, so was the barrel. don't fall into the "I have to over think everything" school of gun building.

                       Hungry Horse

[cheyenne]

Thanks for the replies....not trying to overthink things....just not sure in difference of the different metals and wanted advise on the one easiest to work with. Sounds like 1018 is what I'll try using.
 

[David R. Pennington]

Mark is right about the wrought iron. If you intend to do any welding the wrought iron forge welds so much better than steel. You can pin the pieces together and braze them also. I am always on the lookout for old wrought iron scrap for forging. I learned to forge weld with mild steel and was envious of all the beautiful nearly seamless forge welds I would find in old work. My forge welds in mild steel rarely looked so good. When I made my first welds with wrought I discovered how they were able to achieve such fine results.
It is difficult to get used to working the wrought after using steel. The temperatures needed to work the wrought  would destroy the steel.
Mark, did you ever get started on your barrel welding project?

[Sawatis]

OK guys,  I'm curious....where do y'all get your wrought iron from...is there a commercial source for it...searching junkyards here in TX doesn't turn up much...at least not much of usable dimension!  Got a few jail bars from an old prison about 20 years back...but that stock is loooong gone!
John

[shortbarrel]

Wrought iron to wrought iron welds great, 1018 to 1018 you get a glue yob, high carbon to high carbon is in the glue job range, but if welded in the right heat, it sometimes comes close to being a wrought iron weld. Just my two cents worth. Don't sweat to much in your forge experiments.

[Habu]

OK guys,  I'm curious....where do y'all get your wrought iron from...

Wagon tires were (and still are, in some locales) a good source.  Old bridges are a good source; there has been a lot of decent wrought coming from some of the old bridges across the Missouri they've been replacing lately.  Salvaged structural materials can be a good source.  I've heard of anchor chains being used as a source, don't recall ever working any.  

These folks http://www.newenglandschoolofmetalwork.com/forsale.php have some listed, but what I saw of it was very "slaggy".  Wouldn't want to make a barrel or lock out of it, but it could be worked down for a triggerguard and buttplate.  I wouldn't want to do thin stuff like ramrod pipes with it.  

And there is always The Real Wrought Iron Company http://www.realwroughtiron.com/

[Ben Quearry]

Here is one source I have found for wrought iron;
http://www.oldglobewood.com/real-wrought-iron-rods.html
I have not ordered any from them yet but I plan to at some point. I agree with the others that 1018 is about the best all round steel for SMR furniture. I use 21 gage for thimbles and 16 gage for buttplates, nose caps, entry caps. I get mine from Speedy metals if I can't find it at the scrap yard. For SMR guards I use 1/8" by 5/8" for the bow and 1/8" by 1/2" (Sometimes 3/8" for slimmer guns) for the grip and finials.

Best Regards
Ben

[JCKelly]

Oooooh . . . . thanks for those wrought iron sources. Don't do this stuff anymore, but glad to hear it is available somewhere. I learned to make my first forge weld in real wrought iron just before I, ah . . . burnt my first iron. Yeah.
 
Wrought iron was last produced din the USA about 1960 in Western Pennsylvania. The most "modern" production method started out by pouring molten low carbon steel into a bath of molten slag. Nothing like wrought iron for forging, absolutely nothing.

Now, whether you use low carbon steel or wrought iron, after you forge it some areas will be very coarse grain. Coarse grains ("crystallized" to the eye) are bad, fine grains are good. Just take your finish forged item and reheat it to a modest red color, 1650F if you measure such things, and let it cool in air. This will refine the grain & made a tougher item.

Probably doesn't matter much for soft steel or wrought iron, matters a lot for steel that is to be hardened. I got to be a hero of sorts at Black & Decker circa 1964 by getting them to anneal a forged 6159 steel sheet metal cutting tool bit before hardening it. Hephaestos/Vulcan was with me, the project engineer cut his hand when one of the old bits broke in testing. Heat treated My Way they lasted & lasted. Text Book (1950's -60's anyway) metallurgy that does work. Dunno if any colleges teach real metallurgy anymore.

Geezer Kelly

[Sawatis]

Hey y'all
Like Mr Kelly said...thanks for the sources...seems the scrap metal boom here has removed much of the scrap metal from availability.  They treat aluminum like gold though...and copper...good luck finding old soldering irons!  Can't imagine what shipping from over the pond might run though!! One thing I did with some of the wrought I worked with that was a tad slaggy was to "refine" it like they did in the past...get it to welding heat and hammer (not too vigorously)...take it to far and it gets crumbly though...anneal like Mr Kelly said and it works really nice...
John

[John Archer]

Old Globe Wood is a great company to buy wrought iron from. I bought some 5/8 and 3/4 rod from them several years ago. The 5/8 was all good. I had problems with the 3/4 being red short. I called them on it and they apologized saying that was the only dimension they hadn't had tested. They replaced all the 3/4 with no problem. Right now they have a 50% off sale...good stuff.

John.