Is it important to accurately center the ball on the patch?

[Natureboy]

   I've heard two opinions on this subject.  One is that it isn't important to center the ball on the patch, and of course the other is that it is.  Any comments on this?

[Frizzen]

Yes, if the patch is cut small where the sides just cover the side of the ball, no if using a slightly oversize patch where when folded up around the ball covers the sprue.

[hanshi]

Yes, if the patch is cut small where the sides just cover the side of the ball, no if using a slightly oversize patch where when folded up around the ball covers the sprue.

Agreed!  +1

[Daryl]

I think the question is, or perhaps was meant to be:

" if the patch is oversize (larger than necessary), it is necessary to centre the ball in the patch. Thus, more material would be on one side than the other when it left the muzzle- would THAT effect accuracy."

I think the best way to find that out, would be to do the test oneself - not to trust someone else's 'opinion'.

Good, precise loading is of high importance if desiring the best accuracy.

When I am loading, I endeavour to centre the ball in the patch, no matter what size the patch is. I also try to push the ball STRAIGHT down into the muzzle, with no pressure to one side or the other when starting the ball - failing to do THAT will cause flyers out of the group if shooting longer ranges. These flyers are caused if, when pushing the ball sideways into the bore, raises a ridge against one side of the ball with heavy engraving in the lands while leaving perfect roundness without impressing the rifling of the other side of the ball. Again, differences in accuracy only showed for me with the .69, at ranges further than 100yards.  Thus, my starters all have a short cupped peg to start the ball squarely in the muzzle, without harming it.

[Natureboy]

   I see a consensus here, and my practice last week at the range might just prove it.  I shot 7 rounds at 50 yards.  Hornaday swaged round balls with .015 pre-lubed patches.  Four balls made a tight group in the middle of the black, but three sailed out of the black entirely.  I'd like to blame the patches instead of myself.  I know I wasn't flinching, because there were two mis-fires, and I stayed still.  When I was in Basic Training in the Army in 1967, I used to help out with trainees who were having trouble, and my usual technique was to hand them a loaded magazine with a dud at #3.  Sure enough, they flinched.  I'll try to center the ball well, or use a larger patch and trim it off at the muzzle.

[Vomitus]

   Dang right it's the patch! Start at 20 thou and get thicker. Oh, i forgot! Short starters haven't been invented yet.Use one anyways! You'll need it for a tight but well lubed patch. Daryls and most others in our club pre-cut our patches just cause it's easier and a tad faster. With spit,sloppy wet,same with a water base concoction on your patches. Daryls's little knub thingy works slick.

[Daryl]

In my opinion, LB is spot-on, as usual.

I also would try a thicker patch - of course.  

Natureboy - if thin patches produced good accuracy, the Friendship cross-stick buffalo target, chunk, plank and bench rest shooters would be using them too.

What consists as GOOD accuracy to the individual shooter, is what is important here.

Benched, a round ball gun of .50 cal or greater will shoot into 2" at 100yards - given good eyes & ability of the shooter.  3" is quite easy- with a good load.

Even offhand, you cannot expect to shoot a good target (what's good to you might not be to someone else) with inaccurate loads.  Whatever group the load you use will shoot in the very best conditions as in near perfect rested conditions with you shooting, you can add that group size to the outside edges of the very best group you are capable of shooting offhand at the same range - with 'any' gun with iron sights - as that will show your potential grouping from the offhand position - with THAT load.  You will never average tighter grouping than the load's capability PLUS your own.

I did a test on this very subject a few years back. The results showed conclusively that the more open grouping the capability of the load, the wider the offhand group that will be produced.  In my tests, the overall offhand group was slightly larger than the 'formula' says it would be.  
This not only happened in the test, it is completely logical that it would happen as well.

Discounting critical components, loading practices or load combinations and stating "It doesn't matter, I'm only shooting offhand" merely makes it easier for those who do pay attention to details and actually work to perfect their loads, to remain in the top shooter's group.

edited for clarity, I hope

[Ron T.]

You should always attempt to "center" your rifle ball, but that isn't always possible... especially if you are using a pre-cut patch.

After washing & drying a 3-foot length by 28-inch width of my cotton denim patching material I cut off of the roll of material I purchased 5 or 6 years ago, I cut the cloth into 2-inch wide strips and, using a strip of the patching material, I lube it and cut the patch at my .50 caliber rifle's muzzle.  This width gives me a bit a leeway as far as centering the ball on the patching material.

If your patch material is wide enough and if you cut the patch at the muzzle with the rifle ball reasonably, but not exactly centered, the ball will automatically have sufficient patching material totally surrounding it to shoot accurately... and accuracy is definitely effected by having the rifle ball surrounded by a lubricated cotton patch of adequate thickness.

As long as you use a reasonable width of your patching material compared to the caliber of your rifle and cut the patching material at the rifle's muzzle using the rifle's muzzle as a "knife-guide", centering the rifle ball isn't all that critical.

Of course, if you place the rifle ball at the edge of the patching material and cut it at the muzzle, the ball either won't have enough or  possibly ANY patching material on one side of the ball and that will be detrimental to good accuracy.

Nothing is "idiot-proof"... common sense ALWAYS prevails.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Standing Bear]

I've had this discussion many times. It MAY not be critical but by cutting at the muzzle I have eliminated one more varriable.   Same as wiping between shots and weighing balls. This ain't no speed game. Consistency rules.

[EC121]

If I am shooting a match and have the luxury of a bench to spread out my equipment, I cut patches at the muzzle.  Plinking out of the bag in the backyard I use an 8 ball loading block for convenience.  The .30cal rifle is easier to load with the block.  (Handling those small loose balls and patches can be aggravating.)  I do my best to center them in the block.  To make the needed .292 balls I had to swage .300 balls down to size.  This made more of a wadcutter looking bullet that shoots fine.  The short starter impression on the ball doesn't hurt at 35yds.

[Daryl]

A short starter impression on the ball, which should consist of no more than a slightly impressed circle or ring, will have absolutely NO adverse effect on the ball out to ANY range you might be shooting.  The base of the ball, however must be perfect, just as the base of a bullet.

A deeply impressed ring on the nose of the ball might even aid in cutting cards and strings with less than perfectly centered hits - just saying it's possible.