Author Topic: Those pesky little scratches  (Read 13969 times)

Offline Stophel

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  • Chris Immel
Re: Those pesky little scratches
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2014, 05:40:35 AM »
You will see LOTS of tool marks on old guns.  Carving and scraping marks.  Frankly, I find it a charming feature, showing real hand work and ignoring the modern ideal of glass-smooth perfection (which the VAST majority of people will never be able to discern anyway).

I learned most from one German gun I have from about 1720 (more or less), with a wonderfully un-messed-with wood surface.  The wood is smooth, but not SMOOTH.  It is irregular, there are "scratches" and lines from the scraper being moved across the wood.  It's not perfectly smooth and flat in the carving backgrounds nor in the carved mouldings.  One thing that struck me most when really examining it closely was that the wrist is not really round, but made up of a series of tiny little "flats" where the gunsmith ran the scraper down the wrist.

I also see plenty of file marks on metal parts too.  Even fine European guns will often readily show filing marks, with only the highest of the high grades polished to "perfection".
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Those pesky little scratches
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2014, 05:58:03 AM »
Here is a fine German fowler, probably in the top 10% of quality in carving design and execution.

The backgrounding is almost crude, and in the wrong light, bad workmanship!


And then a close-up of the surface. Toolmarks up the wazoo. I don't know if these are from some meister 'refinishing' the piece at a later date, or completely original to the gun.


Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Those pesky little scratches
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2014, 03:07:00 PM »
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Those pesky little scratches
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2014, 03:55:14 PM »
You will find a lot of antique furniture carving shows the same type of things as Tom's German Fowler. Remember that these things were made before the industrial age and the perfect repetition created by machinery.

If you want to make an accurate re creation you have to get in the frame of mind of the original builders and remember the sometimes, not always, but sometimes good enough really is good enough; however do not let good enough degenerate into sloppy workmanship. There is indeed a fine line. Well designed carving can be accomplished with less than perfect workmanship and still come across well, but a poorly designed pattern, not matter how well executed, is still a poor design.

As one of my old art teachers tried so diligently to drill into our young minds years ago....
           Composition is Everything.

Offline bjmac

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Re: Those pesky little scratches
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2014, 06:48:34 PM »

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Those pesky little scratches
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2014, 08:11:34 AM »
When your foreground is that good,  you can coast a little on the background.   ;)   Most original American longrifles I have seen are pretty much the same as this German rifle, more or less,  mostly less.   However, there are some,  a very few, original rifles that were for special people that exhibited a level of fit and finish like we currently see in contemporary carved and engraved firearms. 

The more original guns I examine and work on,  the more I am impressed with the idea that the original makers just had the attitude to roll with it.   They would make the best of whatever screw-up they made.   They wouldn't start over.   They would patch up, if they could, and move on.   A small slip or goof was just left.   Even on a rifle that looks very nice overall,  you will find lots of these things if you look hard enough.   

Not that I would ever do it,  but I should almost pay customers to bring me original guns for repair and restoration.  I learn so much from the experience.    You can take a gun apart and see how the original maker went about creating it,  what problems they had, and how they responded to them.    Mostly,  I see all the same mistakes that I make, even on nice guns.   It has served to make me much more relaxed and workman like about my work.   I just make it,  and if it isn't perfect,  fine, nothing is going to be.   If I screw something up,  no problem,  I fix it.   Finally,  don't sweat the small stuff.   It is the overall impression that is important.   Oh,  and everything does need to fit, including fitting the customer,  and work properly.   

Even the work on originals, if it is not finely engineered or finished, it is neatly done.   I don't know if I can really explain that.   I will try with an example or two.   On a rifle I am restoring now,  the barrel channel, for most of its length was planed out over size in a sort of elongated "O" in order to not have to fit up the flats of the barrel.   Only the last two inches or so of the breech and muzzle had the flats fitted.    However,  the rounded out section of the barrel channel was still smooth, even, and straight.    The flats that were cut were neatly and precisely done, tapering out the rounded out section of the channel.   This is the norm on almost all the rifles I have examined.   Inlets are almost always neatly cut and bottoms leveled even when not seen under the patchbox, toe plate, or side plate.   That is because that is part of securely fitting the mount.    You don't see a lot of gouges and tear outs.   They were using SHARP tools quickly and neatly to do only the work that mattered for function and external appearance.   There was a balance going on and it is clear that for well trained gunsmiths there was an expected level of quality, seen and unseen.    It is not the same as today, but it was not sloppy or careless work.  I aspire to the same standards.