18th century walnut

[Dan Fruth]

I've got a question for you wood historians. My wife and I just returned from a trip down south that included a stop at Old Salem > saw some beautiful 18th century walnut furniture there that was beautiful. The color was not the typical dark chocolate brown but an orange/brown color. I have a small piece of walnut in the shop that same color, but can't find any more of it. BUT the question is...Why is the color difference there in the first place. Is the old walnut a different sub species?? I've been trying to find some old walnut around the web but I'm not sure the color is because of age or something else. Any ideas?  Dan

[Ed Wenger]

Dan, I'm certainly no expert, but I'd be inclined to think it might be walnut heart wood?  Heart wood can be almost blonde in some instances and may have darkened over time to the color you're talking about.  If you're trying to match something, Wayne Dunlap may be of some help.


       Ed

[blackbruin]

kiln dried vs air dried and different mineral contents in the soil. Kiln dried seems to draw the minerals more even, where air dried leaves it spread out more. No expert just from observation.

[Dan Fruth]

Thanks for the thoughts guys...Here are some things I can share...I sawed a big log about 5 years ago..12/4 and air dried, and it is dark chocolate colored...I also have a good sized piece of known 150 year old walnut, and its the same color throughout...and its a orangeish(sp) color..beautiful...The wood I saw was maybe 30" wide and evenly colored, the same orange/brownish color. ...Its a mystery to me...Dan

[Habu]

My first thought is that you are seeing the difference between kiln-dried wood and air-dried wood.  Most commercial kiln-dried walnut is steamed to even out the coloration and to reduce the amount of sapwood that shows.  This results in that purple-ish brown color. 

[Dan Fruth]

Good thought Ed...I didn't think to call Wayne...But here is a thought..Do you suppose southern walnut looks different than northern(Ohio,Pa)..Just wondering..D

[Kermit]

How much UV has the lighter wood been exposed to? I've seen some of my Am. black walnut furniture that has been at or near a window getting direct sunlight turn almost blonde. One client actually complained that the side in the sun was a different color than the side that had always been facing away from the light. I guess it was supposed to be my fault.

[Old Bob]

I've been told that if you remove the bark as soon as possible after cutting the tree the wood will turn darker. I peeled most of the bark from a log I cut, but I didn't leave it as a log long enough to see. The boards spent about 7 years in the attic before I used any. Fairly dark. I've got some that has been exposed to some sun since then and it has a little more orange cast. A fellow gave me 2 old 3"x 6" walnut timbers (mostly heartwood) that is almost maroon.

[acorn20]

I went antiquing in Maryland yesterday with my daughter-in-law and found a few pieces of walnut furniture I wouldn't mind having.  It was noted to be 18th century but was a golden color.  My first thought was Turkish walnut. 

I went back and read your post and no where do you mention that it was American Black Walnut.  Are you quite sure it was American Black Walnut?  Furniture was also made out of English Walnut which would present a lighter color wood with about the same grain structure of Black Walnut.  But I've handled a few Jaeger rifles that most definitely had that rich, golden color of Turkish Walnut.  Interesting post!

[Dan Fruth]

Hew Acorn..You could be right....We were in the Museum of Southern Decorative Arts, and the piece in question was a large table. The inscription said only the word "Walnut Table", but I immediately assumed Black walnut. Could have been English walnut. The reason I started this thread was to see if others have seen walnut stocked guns that were not the dark colored walnut, and why was the color so different. I like the idea of UV bleaching out some of the color. I still hope someone will post some info on walnut with an orange/brown color and know why its that color........D

[JCKelly]

About 45 years ago I knew which chemicals would do a nice job of aging walnut, making it more golden than red.
I suspect it was common lye (sodium hydroxide) that I used. But, ferrous sulfate also comes to mind.

Current gun builders should comment

[Captchee]

depending on the tree and its age , location ........... black walnut can  contain  areas of yellow / golden color and not have anything to do with sap wood .  I have actually seen it marble through the hart  dead center of the trunk  and often times  down in the hart of the root bulb .
  Both the stock and forearm of this shot gun came from the same slab of heartwood . In fact the forearm is from wood , just below the butt .. As the wood mellows , the oil ages , the dark wood gets darker and the yellow  becomes more golden 

[Nordnecker]

Unlike most woods that darken with exposure to light, Black walnut gets lighter. Walnut furniture and the finishes used over the past 400 years or so can really fool you. The wood is getting blonder all the time and the finish can be getting darker. It's very hard to match. You might think you got it right, but a year or so later it can and probably will look totally different, depending on the light.
When you first cut a black walnut tree, the heartwood is almost green in color. With exposure to the air, it quickly turns to that chocolate brown color. Rough boards left to dry in a dark place will stay dark and look almost grey on the surface. In my shop loft, there are 2 light panels in the roof. Walnut boards quickly lighten up under these light panels. 

[Tony Clark]

.Why is the color difference there in the first place. Is the old walnut a different sub species?? I've been trying to find some old walnut around the web but I'm not sure the color is because of age or something else. Any ideas?  Dan

Walnut trees like any other trees are all different in some way, shape or form. The genetics are different and vary greatly over time and region. 18th century walnut will be different from modern walnut even if taken from trees harvested in that same region because genetics slowly change over time as with everything else in this world. Who is to say what the particulars are involved with the specific piece you saw... where the wood was from, what finish was used and what the piece was subjected to from the time it was created until now. Any color imaginable can be created in walnut I dare to say if someone has it in there mind to do it including recreating the color in the piece you saw. I wouldn't look for a specific tree that would give it to you though.

[Dan Fruth]

Thanks Tony...I guess I'll stop looking for old walnut barn beams and just call Wayne Dunlap. I know you fellas are correct about the uv factor.....The wood I have has never seen the light since it was slabbed at the mill, it has been on stick in ther barn. It is a dark chocolate color..Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

This aging/bleaching effect makes wood ID hard to tell between English and American on antique guns.

[Old Bob]

A good example of varied colors in walnut gunstocks is the "musket organ" in the Springfield Armory Museum. The stocks in that stack range from nearly black to light blonde. All American walnut. I think much of the colorization of the wood comes from soil content as well as other conditions while the tree is growing as much as post-cutting conditions.

English walnut apparently does the same thing as I've seen many original Enfields ranging from over dark to very light blonde. One Enfield that used to be in a museum here in WV had a stock that was a light tan with a yellowish cast.

[A.Merrill]

    I watched a tv show years ago and the main thing I remember was they talked about old growth trees 100 years ago had denser wood than new growth trees that we use today.
    I can't remember if it was the same show or not, but some guy had found logs at the bottom of lake Superior that had been there sense the logging days when they floated the logs to the mill. These logs would sometimes get frozen in the ice, become water logged and sink. Most of if not all the logs where over 100yrs old , old growth trees. They said these logs was worth thousands of dollars apiece.      AL

[Acer Saccharum]

I remember something like that; curly maple, sank in the lake, and they were 'mining' it?

Google machine: http://www.superiorwoods.com/submerged_wood.htm

[PPatch]

That log mining is a pretty big thing these days. I know from a recent trip to the Okefenokee swamp that "miners" are going for the old cypress logs down there. They are worth large bucks, one reason being there is no active logging allowed in the preserve these days. I also saw a long barreled caplock that was found in a old tree stump way out in the swamp - It was in rough condition but neat none the less. I'm betting there is an interesting story as to how it ended up in that stump.

dp

[Dan Fruth]

The walnut I have from a known 150 year old plank is definately a different color than that from a tree harvested just 5 years ago, but the color might not be a result of old growth, but minerals in the soil. That is what I'm taking away from the answers here . Thanks for all the posts....Dan

[David R. Pennington]

I think it was Peter Kalm, the Swedish naturalist who toured New England and Canada in 18th. century, who remarked on his surprise at not finding larger trees in the Virgin American forests. His conclusion was that trees eventually die from old age if not harvested. If this is true there would not be much difference between old growth or mature second growth?

[mountainman70]

I have some old growth,amer black walnut from south Georgia,cut and slabbed out 30 years ago,air dryed in steel barn for 25 or so,and it is very heavy,a lancaster pattern blank of it is nearly twice as heavy as a WVa blank of same dimension.Boy,is it tough to work,but beautiful.
I have used orange shellac on a variety of wood projects,ranging from antique pipe organ cases,to old orig guns,and it does leave an orange cast to the item.Dave