How do I get out of this one?

[Curt Larsen]

I'm trying to rebuild a semi completed stock I found somewhere along the line.  It has barrel, lock, and breechplug tang mortises cut.  The tang is a longer one and is ca. 4" long.  it is ca. 1/2" wide at the breech and tapers to 3/8" or so.  It has a 7/8 barrel with 5/8 x 18 breech plug.  It will  be flint.  This is my first attempt at fitting a breech plug.  I used a long tapered tang plug that TOW once carried (but no longer).  It was a full 1/2" at the breech and tapered back.  To make a long story short, I shortened the journal too much and now I'm stuck without a proper replacement plug--TOW only stocks a 5/8 x 18 plug with a 7/16" width to math the flats on a 1" barrel, and it is too narrow to fill the existing mortise.  So what to do?  I can't find a BP wide enough with the proper threads.  The only thing I've found wide enough online is an unthreaded long tang from DGW.  I've thought about adding more wood along the tang mortise, but it will look like doo doo.  I've also considered using a patent breech for flint, but it will move the pan position too far forward for a new flint lock mortise.  Do any of you have ideas?  Maybe I should stick to barrels with pre fitted plugs.
Curt

[sz]

First, I would give you a bit of advice.  Stop using initials in your posts thinking that everyone can understand what you mean.
Ca?
TOW?

I am sure many do understand, but it's probable that there are people out here that can help you, who are not computer geeks and don't "speak geek"
 I am one

As far as fixing the problem I think you may be able to heat the old tang and forge it to a wider and longer shape, file it to look good and fill in the old inlet with a piece of wood.  Then inlet the new tang to cover the old repair.

I hope that helps

[Curt Larsen]

OK, ca. = circa = about.  TOW=Track of the Wolf.  DGW=Dixie Gun Works.  Sorry about that.  Anyway, thanks.

[WKevinD]

If I am reading this correctly your tang will be too short/ narrow after you install your existing breechplug?
If that is the case install your breechplug file your tang to half it's thickness and braze or weld a new "false" tang to fill the mortise or cut a new tang mortise to fit your new tang.
My best guess.

[Acer Saccharum]

To make a long story short, I shortened the journal too much and now I'm stuck without a proper replacement plug

Curt, what is the journal?

Is that the length of thread? If so, what length do you have?

[Curt Larsen]

I guess I need to find a new language.  Anyway, I've heard others use the word journal for the threaded part of the plug itself.  The real problem is that I filed too much off the face of it.  The plug tang I have is half an inch wide at the breech and the tang tapers back to about the same width at its tail.  It narrows to three eighths in the center.  It is a beavertail tang that I can shorten to fit the present mortise.  There is no longer a beavertail plug on the market that has these dimensions.  Track originally had this one, but have found a new supplier.  So since I screwed up the good one I can't find a new one that will be wide enough to fit the existing mortise.  The only plug I can find that has the proper width is a straight unthreaded long tang that Dixie Gun Works carries. 

[P.W.Berkuta]

Curt can you heat the tang and pound it wider than your mortise and then file it to fit? OR are you saying that you filed off too much of the face of the threaded breach plug and now it does not shoulder up to the inside face of the barrel? If the fit of the breach plug threads is the issue then how about filing off some of the end of the barrel so that both breach plug and inside of barrel will mate up when threaded together? How about a picture of what you have this will help us to understand what you have and what can be done to cure the issue -- and YES many of us did not understand your post  - sorry.

[Curt Larsen]

I've filed way too much from the face of the plug.  I've got four tenths (notice no abbreviation) inches left on the plug.  I can shorten the barrel, but I wonder if I have enough threads left in the breech to do the job.  I know that the plugs were pretty short in the originals but I wonder about us now.
Curt

[rsells]

If you have cut the threaded portion of the plug too short, you might post a photo of your plug and someone that looks at ALR may have one that they are not using that they may sell you to take care of the issue.
                                                                              Roger Sells

[bob in the woods]

The tang itself is easy to replace. Years ago, a friend of mine used bolts for plugs with a piece welded on for a tang.
You can purchase a new plug, and simply forge out the existing tang to what you need. Most of the plugs I've used had tangs that were overly thick anyways. Lots of material to work with.

[P.W.Berkuta]

The steel we use today is much stronger than the wrought iron of the past. I am guessing that the two threaded surfaces are threaded to 75% full thread engagement which is standard. I am not going to say that your .4 is not on the short side but on a .45 cal or smaller caliber I would not hesitate in using the rifle as long as you use reasonable sane charges and a round ball. Max strength is achieved at length of threaded work to diameter of threaded work.  Hope this helps.

[Curt Larsen]

Here pictures of the tang at fault (my fault).

[mountainman70]

Curt,quit beatin yourself up over this bump in the road.Check your mirror,I bet you will find you be a humen bean like the rest of us.If it werent for makin mistakes,we wouldnt learn much,'specially at our "advanced"age.hahahah

I am with the rest of the guys here,it is fixable.You have been given some good advice,grab on to it and git er dun.best of luck.Dave F  -head booboo maker in WVa 

[WKevinD]

File your barrel! Set the barrel up so that you can file, move around, file, move around etc. trying to keep it square; when you reach the thread shoulder, line up the flats and be done with it.
There is a reason other people have opinions on how to fix this issue- we've been there.     
 

[shortbarrel]

sz thanks for your post. How can you help someone if they are using initials that you have never heard off. PLEASE, PLEASE, stop using these initials on this site. Use the full description.

[Curt Larsen]

OK, I'm going to go for it.  It is going to be .40 caliber anyway.  Thanks for the tips.  I'll keep you posted.
Curt

[kaintuck]

Curt,you could send the barrel to TOTW and they will put it right, and there are others than can put a tang/plug safely on your barrel.....
Marc n tomtom

[little joe]

Ease up on the guy for abbreviating.  It happens on a lot of the threads.

[WadePatton]

sz thanks for your post. How can you help someone if they are using initials that you have never heard off. PLEASE, PLEASE, stop using these initials on this site. Use the full description.

abbreviations are a part of life and

these here days we are ever only 2 clicks away from the definition (and illustrations) of any/every term you never heard of be it a word, phrase, colloquialism, or abbreviation.  

So it has never been easier to get ANY unknown term by the skivvies pronto eh?



I haven't written the word that "bbl" stands for in years, nearly-even though the abbreviation is spelled funny (like lbs or oz).

Of course in "Formal English" one would spell the term out the first time with a parenthetical note of the abbreviation to be on the lookout for.  Most of the web is not going to be formal English.  

best 4 u!

[Mark Elliott]

If I have correctly understood all the facts, I frankly don't see the problem.   Just order a couple (one for a spare) new 5/8 -18 (for a 7/8" or larger barrel) long tang breech plugs from Track of the Wolf (TOTW) and cut and file one of them to the shape you need.   Those tangs are about 7/16" wide which should be more than enough for you.  The tang at the breech of the barrel should be filed the same width as the flats which should be no more than 3/8" for a 7/8" barrel.   The tang you get will certainly be more than wide enough to fit a 7/8" barrel.  From your picture,  It looks like you should have enough width as the tang tapers towards the back.   If for some reason the tang isn't wide enough,  just forge it out wider where you need it, but that doesn't look necessary to me.   As an example of what you can do,  I recently forged a 9" long over the comb tang out of one of those long tang breech plugs from TOTW.   If I can get that out of one,  you can get what you need out of one.   It is 12L14 steel and real easy to work.

As to fitting the breech plug,  you do know that you are going to have to shorten the breech of the barrel as well as the face of the breech plug?   Any time you re-breech,  you are going to loose up to one thread; in this case 1/16".    When I re-breeched the barrel for the plug and tang mentioned above, it cost me 1/16" to index the plug and tang at the same flat as the old one.  

Also,  once you get within a quarter turn of the final position of the plug/tang, you have to take things real slow,  breeching a barrel by hand with files is very, very tedious.   You want a tight fit all the way around the plug face and it should be flat and polished bright.  I finish up with a #2 Swiss barrette file.     

[Pete G.]

I think I remember reading somewhere (Probably ALR site) that someone had silver soldered a dime onto the face of a breachplug to address this same situation. It was fitted to the barrel and then polished to produce a non-corroding face to the plug.

[Herb]

Hi, Curt.  Go to Tutorials- Metal shaping- Page 1- "Fitting a Hawken Breech Plug by Hand" by Herb.