region I D., more photos

[keweenaw]

There is a moderately late percussion rifle for sale at another site that has a rather extensive patch box, photo below.  Any idea where it was made? The seller lists it as a take down because there is a plate to plate joint behind the entry thimble, but because the forestock wood is absolutely plain and a different color than the nicely figured buttstock, it looks more to me like a forestock replacement.  I've put in more photos.  The rifle is not carved and there is a long brass or copper name plate in the barrel but the seller doesn't list any name.  The barrel is listed as 44 inches so it's probably original length. Any opinion on value if unsigned?



 

[mr. no gold]

This looks like a Bedford County rifle, but my take on is that it is of the Bedford School which could also put it into Somerset or Cambria Counties, as well. Is there a name on the top barrel flat or even some initials? Take down guns are not a feature of the Bedford School, and your inclination that the forestock is a type of restoration may be correct. Without seeing it no one can really say.
The gun you show here is a very fine rifle and has the Bedford patchbox. The architecture is correct and the hammer has a Bedford similiarity. The lockplate however is not a plate typical of that school and it appears to be a hardware store item.
Is this rifle carved and what does the left side look like?
Dick

[B Shipman]

Everything screams Bedford to me. The box, the shape of the inlays, the long grip rail on the T.G. , shape, etc. I'm with Mr. Nogold. A Bedford with a bought lock.

[Curt J]

Not all Bedford rifles were made in Bedford. I know of two Bedford County makers who moved to Iowa. Both continued to make Bedford style rifles in their new location. One was Thomas Oldham, who worked in Colesburg, Clayton County, Iowa, from 1865 on into the 1880's. The other was Jacob Breigle, who worked for several years in Dubuque, Dubuque County Iowa, before moving to Maple Grove, Missouri, in about 1865. A "Bedford rifle" that was made far away from Bedford might be more likely to have a "store-bought" lock, wouldn't you think?

As far as the two-piece stock construction. Yes, it could be an old repair, but it could also be the product of a gunsmith with a "waste-not want-not" attitude, making use of a piece of wood that he could not have used otherwise.

Whatever the case, it's an interesting rifle.

[famouseagle]

I would go with the replacement forend.  The gunsmith who inlet that wonderful patchbox was capable of much better than the inlays at the junction of the stock and forend.

[mr. no gold]

Just looked at the photos again and note that the finial on the butt plate has the same filing detail as virtually all Huntingdon County rifles. That is where the point of contact is filed round to meet the stock while the finial itself is proud. Most rifles go the other way; high at the wood contact point and low toward the point of the buttplate. This is a very telling detail and suggests a strong tie with H' County; the rifle may have been made there. Some of the inlays look more like that school than of Bedford County, also.
The forearm is almost certainly a replacement since the wood is mismatched with the butt stock, and the quality of wood and work is not the same. If the gun can be obtained reasonably, it would be worth the effort of restoring it properly since it has an uncut barrel.
Without a signture (or initials) it is difficult to prove that it is a Bedford County gun, but it is clearly of the Bedford School and could have been made in Cambria or Huntingdon Counties or a border area.
Have you checked Whisker's 'Gunmakers of Bedford, Somerset, and Huntingdon Counties' to see if there are any clues?
As to value, that is a tough call. I think that if I could buy a nice gun like that for 2K, (plus one perhaps), I would do it with the notion of spending another thousand plus, putting it back to what it should look like and have a great looking rifle in the end.
Dick

 

[Joe Stein]

Whisker and Yantz in their book  Gunsmiths of Bedford, Fulton, Huntingdon, & Somerset Counties, on page 139, show a gun by Sam Smith of Huntingdon County with a joint like this one.  The patchbox is different, but it does have a rounded tail lock, and the set triggers are very similar, almost exactly the same.  he stock wood does appear to match up on that one.

The inlays on the one posted here do look a lot like Bedford.

-Joe

[Spotz]

For the sake of clarity:  The turned front trigger is *of a type commonly found on rifles built in* Huntingdon County.  The patchbox is a Bedford style.  Without a signature or the signature Bedford lock and hammer, I would put this in Somerset or Cambria County.  Overall, it is a pretty nice rifle, but no features put this squarely into Bedford or Huntingdon. 

[mr. no gold]

Just a note, but Thomas Oldham in Bedford used turned front triggers in his rifles. They are not specific to Huntingdon, but you will see far more on those rifles than in any other school.
Dick