Gravers

[Kenny]

Gentlemen,
what is the best steel to make gravers out of? I tried searching and didn't find anything. appreciate any help here.
Thanks,
Kenny

[Acer Saccharum]

3/32 Cobalt high Speed Steel. GRS makes them.

You can also use 1/8" square lathe bits (cheap way)

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a supplier list.

[Hadden West]

Have you ever used anything with carbide? I was thinking about grinding a graver out of a broken pulley tap. Or, could a handle be added and used as a pusher? I guess I need some pics, of what others are using, as I am interested in doing some simple engravings on brass.

[docone]

For simple engraving, I use a square file sharpened corner to corner, with a 15* relief cut. I sharpen the files corner to corner.
I get my files at flea markets. They are a buck each.

[Hungry Horse]

 I guess I'm just  hillbilly, I use worn out chainsaw files I get from the local saw shop. I like Pferd brand best. You almost never need to sharpen them if you are engraving brass, silver, or mild steel.

                   Hungry Horse

[Telgan]

Anyone know anything about  "Gensteel" gravers? Seen them spoken of in a couple of other places

[Kevin Houlihan]

You can get 1/8" X 2 1/2" 5% cobalt lathe bits from ENCO for about $2.50 each
Kevin

[Acer Saccharum]

Glensteel, from GRS.  http://www.grstools.com/gravers-burs-and-more/glensteel/glensteel-gravers.html

[Acer Saccharum]

Get the best tool for the job. You're going to spend a lot of time engraving, don't let an inefficient tool eat up your precious time.

The 5% or 10% cobalt lathe bits work great. The HSS tools from GRS are the best.

Sharpening is the key to engraving, per Jerry Huddleston.  Once you know how to sharpen, you can learn to engrave. If you don't learn sharpening, you'll not be able to engrave.

[T*O*F]

Anyone know anything about  "Gensteel" gravers

Tom,
They are Glensteel gravers from GRS after their company name Glendo Corp.
All these specialty tips are for engraving the harder steels and stainless with special tip grinds for cartridge guns.  They are not required for anything we might do here.  Same goes for carbide or cobalt.  They are overkill and because they are brittle could even lead to more problems with tip breakage and such.  "Plink" is the most dreaded sound an engraver can hear.

[Jim Kibler]

I disagree.  In my experience the Glensteel gravers are very beneficial for longrie engraving.  I find them to have much better toughness as compared to standard HSS.  This results in much less tip breakage.  A graver lasts a very long time, so I don't understand the desire to be cheap or reuse material in this case.  Especially considering a Glensteel blank costs less than $15.

[Robby]

As one that started out with gravers forged from concrete nails, I can say that recently moving up to GRS gravers makes something I enjoy doing, even more enjoyable.
Robby

[LRB]

  I fully agree with Jim Kibler. The cobalt bits stay sharp longer, and I have not found them to be brittle,

[wpalongrifle]

I've been using a Momax steel shank, 1/8 square 52* face and 15* heel. Bevel side cheeks to 15*
Use this for most line work and scrolls.

[T*O*F]

I fully agree with Jim Kibler.

I'm not saying they won't work OK.  However, these specialty alloys were offered for sale because of a need by those professional engravers who do tough, heat treated guns like Rugers and some others.  If the occasional engraver wants to spend $15 for one when a $2 one will work just as well, more power to ya.

[andy49]

It sounds like the Glensteel gravers are the best gravers. What sharping system works best for these graver?
Andy

[T*O*F]

TOOL WARS

GRS OFFERINGS

HSS  Made from quality heat-treated High Speed Steel.

GlenSteel is special high-speed tool steel made exclusively by GRS for tough engraving and stone setting. It won't break or chip like other tools and is easier to grind and sharpen than other high-speed steels. Size: 0.093" (2.35mm) square X 2.7" (70mm).
GlenSteel is cobalt-free, eliminating the concerns of cobalt exposure during tool sharpening and use.

C-MAX Years of development have now produced a tungsten carbide graver with the right blend of hardness and toughness for hand engraving and stone setting applications. C-Max achieves a metallurgical balance like no other carbide. For years, engravers and jewelers have used other carbide gravers that break easily or don’t hold a fine edge. Now, this frustration is gone forever, thanks to C-Max carbide.

Carbides  The original GRS tungsten carbide square graver blank is now substantially improved in both metallurgy and shape.  The 0.083” (2.1mm) square size is big enough for most every job but without the extra bulk that adds cost and sharpening time. All four sides have a nice utility ground finish that is straight and square.
These are much harder than any tool steel, but more brittle. They last up to 10 times longer between sharpenings when properly used. Sharpen with a diamond wheel.

LINDSAY OFFERINGS

Lindsay CarbaltXD™ is even more durable than the orginal plus they are longer.  Certified Fega Master Engraver Ron Nott helped in the testing and development of this latest extra durable CarbaltXD. The  gravers are fine-grain carbide and cobalt. The grade was developed in close collaboration with several carbide manufacturers for the specific use of hand engraving and impact resistance.  These gravers can be ground and shaped with either a silicon carbide grinding wheel, a diamond grinding wheel or a diamond hone.  When rough grinding, if the material becomes hot, DO NOT quench in water.  Heat will not anneal or damage the material as it does high-speed, tool steel or tool steel with cobalt, but quenching while it is hot will cause the the mixture to become brittle causing the point of the graver to break more easily during use.  Water may be used to keep the heat down in general though.  Do this by grinding until the surface being ground becomes only warm to the touch and then dip in water.  There may only be a second or two of grinding between dipping, but keep dipping in and out of the water during grinding.  This will keep the graver from getting hot, assuring the material does not become damaged.  The type of grinding that builds up heat is usually done to rough the graver blank to shape.   For final shaping and sharpening use a diamond lap either by hand or with a slow speed power hone which will not cause excessive heat.

M42  Harder than HSS,

HSS  Durable, less likely to break, wears faster.

ENCO  has 1/8" tools bits in the following:
M35 5% Cobalt
M42 8% Cobalt
M35 10% Cobalt
M2  High speed steel

[Acer Saccharum]

TOOL WARS

Thanks for that, TOF. 

[Acer Saccharum]

If you are going to get serious about engraving, take some lessons, and then get some basic equipment.

[kutter]

If you find satisfaction in making your own graver(s) in the same way most M/L builders find satisfaction in making other parts that could simply buy off the shelf,,then do so.
Plenty of worn but recyclable tools, bits and other steel items make the grade.
Especially when they are going to be confined to 12L14, brass and silver and not the heat treated frames,slides and parts of many of the more modern cartridge guns on the market. Many of those can be miserable to cut.
For the average builder/hobbiest,,keep it simple. Makes it fun. You don't need a bench littered with gravers of all different points and angles to cut.

If you don't want to put the time aside to grind an old file into a graver,,then buy a  of packet of lathe tool bits from one of the tool supply places. Usually 5 or 6 to a pack ,,2.5 to 3" long. Take your pick of the fancy steel alloy names. Again,,for the M/L type steels and brass, ect,,any of them cut them like butter if sharpened right.

Carbide is fine if you are up against extremely tough alloys and/or need longer tool life.  But a well sharpened HS of any one of the wizzbang alloys should last through most of not all of an average job on a M/L rifle before needing a sharpening again.

There is carbibe and there is carbide. Not all is suited to the impact a graver gets, so certain alloys of carbide work better than others, some not at all for the job. The ones offered by engraver supply houses in tool bit form are pretty well vetted by the engraving community or they wouldn't be on the market as such.
You will need a special grinding wheel to rough out the carbide bits,followed by a diamong faced polishing rig of some sorts to finish polish them. A ceramic wheel and diamond paste does the high luster shine to the points. It not only puts the brilliant polish to the carbide (or any other steel),,but the better the polish on the point on carbide, the less chance of it fracturing. Think glass.It's brittle and any scratch is a stresspoint where it can break easily.

So make or buy what you think you need. You don't need much in the way of a special space age steel alloy to engrave. Just something tougher than the surface being cut.

The real secret, if there is any,  is in the actual sharpening of any of the tools.

[smart dog]

Hi Kenny,
I am late to this party.  Making gravers from bits of tools and such is fine but why not just buy the right blanks of HSS?  I encourage you to spend more time learning to sharpen than worrying about making gravers.  Also, I would choose 3/32" over 1/8" blanks simply because you have less steel to grind, shape, and sharpen to prepare and maintain the graver.  I find that the smaller the face of the graver, the easier it is for me to see the tip on the metal to be engraved.  One poster mentioned almost never needing to resharpen his gravers. I don't know how he does that.  I sharpen my gravers frequently during a session regardless of the material I am cutting.  Sharpening is the key.

[Telgan]

Appreciate the comments on GlenSteel gravers and others. It always pays to have a good supply of popcorn on hand around here. I believe I will spring for the GlenSteel - But still reading and enjoying the thought process on these.

[docone]

I recommend, finding a face angle you like prior to using expensive gravers. I use 56* for stone setting, and 45* with a 15* relief cut for engraving. I am still at the Rune stage, but finding the angle that works for you is advantageous.
I cut my gravers with a diamond wheel, then snap them. The first batch I did, I did too short. With all my mistakes and resharpening, they went quickly.
I will say, for all my inexperience, there is no satisfaction like a finished piece! Even rudimentary work, is great.
I got lots of practice with gravers, fine cutting solder joints that I wanted with no seam. I work in silver so that is hard. I chased them with a graver then polished. I see the joints, but folks do not. That works.
I broke a lot of tips in settings, I chipped the faces of the gravers.
Once past that, I love it.  Really satisfying. I got a ball, and circles became easy, or relatively so.
There are some real engravers here, I have learned a lot and actually broke through on some tough points with the advice of folks here.
Good luck. It will come. Keep trying.