large bore SMR pics

[mountainman70]

hello y'all,I have a nice blank of cherry,a L&R 900d flintlock,and a 1x38 58 cal barrel looking for a build.Where in the museum can I find a similar original to look over with an eye to build?Thanks,Dave F

[gunmaker]

Gonna be a BIG hog rifle, little short.....

[mountainman70]

we Do have sum bigguns up here to shoot,takes a heap o killin to git em dun.I have several long slim rifles in the works,a few finished.Just like the  idea of a big ol smr.The hand forged Bean style guard is of the same scale as the lock and other parts,just want to make good use of em.Thanks,Dave

found this Soddy-Daisy in archive-can someone translate these measurements for me please?Thanks,dave
A Soddy Daisey! Some RCA measurements are; A-57...B-40 1/2....C-13 1/2....D-1....F-4 5/8....H-1 1/4....I-1 5/8....K-3 5/8....Q- 40

[Longknife]

Taken from RCA book:

A...Overall length
B...Barrel length
C...Trigger pull
D...Barrel dia. across the flats at breech
E...Butt width, excluding protruding patch box lid
F...Butt height, from the toe to line of comb extended
G...Cheek piece width, excluding protruding patch box
H...Wrist width
I...Wrist height
J...Width at lock tail
K...Drop of butt
L...Ramrod pipe length
M...Muzzle to front of first pipe
N...Muzzle to front of second pipe
O...Muzzle to front of rear pipe
P...Lock plate length
Q...Caliber
R...Number of grooves in barrel
S...Twist of rifling, inches for full rotation

[sz]

What is an SMR pic?

[gunmaker]

Southern mt. rifle

[frogwalking]

I would definitely forgo the deep crescent buttplate on that rifle.  The vast majority of old southern mountain rifles I have seen either in person, or in photos are between .32 and .40 caliber, most are ,38 or below.  A hard kicking .58 with a crescent buttplate would be a bit painful to shoot.  Most also seem to have rather long barrels, say 44 to 48 inches.  Why not build an Edward Marshal, or other early rifle where a short barrel and large caliber are more common?

[Dphariss]

Finding an original SMR in 58 might be possible but its going to far from the norm and could be one enlarged by "freshing" in the past. The rifle design is not really compatible with a ball of this weight.  The 58 is an expensive rifle to shoot and by time these rifles were being made there was no need for a 58. If you insist on making one for your own comfort and the utility of the rifle your need to reconsider the SMR as a platform. If the rifle likes a lot of powder, as some 58s do recoil WILL be an issue.
If you are concerned about penetration and if you must have a SMR make a 50 cal with a GM (narrow lands) barrel and shoot a wheel weight alloy ball. This will greatly increase penetration with a RB even in bone is encountered. If you MUST have a 58 I would build an English sporting rifle inspired version and use a 30-36" barrel.

Dan

[Dennis Glazener]

I remember that Jerry Noble had a very large caliber "bar" rifle in one of his books. Going from memory I think it was at least a 58 caliber.

I once built a cherry stocked NC poor boy with a C profile 54 caliber. It was a great shooting and very good handling light weight gun. Just a FYI, I would use as straight a stock as I could live with. Don't put a lot of drop in it. Mine had about 3" of drop at the heel and recoil was not bad at all even in a 6 lb 15 oz rifle.
Dennis

[mountainman70]

Thanks fellows,for the input.I have a 36" 58 barrel,and I agree,it needs to be on a hawken style gun,either full or halfstock.The stuff I have for a good SMR,including a nice cherry blank,would be much better with a  smaller ,longer,say 42" barrel.I have gotten accustomed to the long slim ones to this point,so I better stick with em.Might even put the Hawken stuff,barrel,trig/guard assy,etc,up for sale.I appreciate the kra spec info.It will make more sense in looking at gun pics.Best regards,Dave F

[blienemann]

Late to the discussion, but IMO a fullstock Hawken and large bore smr are the same thing with different trigger guard and sideplate/escutcheon.  And possibly a patchbox.  The Hawken boys worked at Harpers Ferry where they knew the 1803 halfstock rifles, and they knew of the mtn rifles built in the hills all around them.  That's probably what they built in St. Louis, and smr's went west with early mtn. men.

Johnson's Kentucky Rifles book pp. 178-180 has 3 examples by Duncan, BHC and Goss(Gross), .52, .55 and ?, though with longer barrels and probably a slight swamp.  There are more out there, remember a couple in the Colorado Hist Soc collection.  I put together many Sharon and other fullstock Hawken sets of parts, some as Hawken, some as smr and some hybrids.  Folks liked them and the story.  Build what you like, possibly make it look cut down from 46" barrel.  Bob