Southern Longrifle in Montana

[30Advance]

Hi All,
I'm new to the site but have been interested in antique Longrifles (Flintlocks) since I was a kid. I came upon this fine old 44 ca. a couple of months ago in a pawn store. No history, Not Signed but a pretty good original Southern rifle. Hard to imagine how it made its way clear to Montana! Well, a little shucking and jiving and I finally ended up with it.

Here are some pics and hopefully someone can chime in on an approximate build date, state, county, school, and Maybe......builder.

Wish I had more history on it. Bore is good and the Edwin Hunt Lock works pretty good. I think the rifle is mostly original except the nose cap and first ramrod thimble. You can see some early repairs to the stock. There is no toe plate 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Dave Vanek Jr.

[RAT]

I'm in Bozeman... I guess I need to check the local pawn shops more often.

[Tanselman]

The stock architecture reminds me of the work of Joseph Bogle of Blount County. However, the triggers are a simpler style than the typical Bogle triggers, and there is no incised lower butt molding. On the plus side, the patchbox (presuming it is original to the gun...since the screws appear modern but may be simple replacements) has a hinge similar to Bogle's with three larger segments in middle, and smaller segments at either end. Regardless of maker, this is a very nice rifle, probably from Tennessee. I cannot tell if the cheek inlay is missing, or just colored in a manner that I cannot see it clearly. If there is a cheek inlay present, could you provide a good picture of it? Shelby Gallien

[30Advance]

I had looked at most pictures on here of Southern Iron Mounted Rifles and thought Joe Bogle's work was closest to mine. Here are more photos to help with ID.

My guess is that someone with a similar life and background to Bogle moved from PA or thereabouts, to SW Virginia or Tennessee, and built the rifle? Maple stocks don't appear much in Tennessee that I have noticed. Any more info would be appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Dave

[Dennis Glazener]

I can't help but wonder if those sideplates were added later. I would bet those triggers aren't the original either, they just don't look
"at home" in that trigger guard.

[RAT]

The roller on the frizzen spring appears to be notched. Has anyone seen that before?

[30Advance]

The frizzen roller has 2 notches. One is slightly deeper than the other. Gives the frizzen 2 different tension settings. I thought this was odd too.

[30Advance]

Update: Just measured my barrel and it measures the same as Joseph Bogle's rifle. Caliber is .44 and barrel is pinned instead of keyed to the stock. Barrel length is the same as well. Perhaps this rifle was made by someone who studied under Bogle or worked with him as an apprentice???

One day I will remove the barrel and see if there are any marking under it.

Thanks,
Dave

[Gaeckle]

I can't help but wonder if those sideplates were added later. I would bet those triggers aren't the original either, they just don't look
"at home" in that trigger guard.

Dennis, I think your right about the triggers.....I have a set that are marked "made in Belgium" that look like those......

[Tanselman]

Regarding the frizzen spring roller notches mentioned before...I've seen a number of rollers with notches in them which appear to be from excessive wear in the same spot over a long period. I'd bet these notches simple indicate the roller was badly worn a couple of times, and each time the gun's owner moved the roller around so the frizzen foot was riding a new, round spot....which over years also wore into a valley so the roller had to be rotated a little more again to a good spot. The lock looks original to the gun, and must have been used for a lot of years, causing a lot of roller wear. Perhaps this was one of those rifles carried west where the owner was fearful of finding areas where percussion caps were not available, so opted to leave the gun flint for much longer than most other rifles. Shelby Gallien

[nosrettap1958]

I'm not surprised at all of its final location as these rifles were carried throughout the country. I'm more surprised we haven't located more of them out west.

If not  a full blooded Tennessee possible an Appalachian rifle? But that inlay has me stumped.