Author Topic: Intro and Seeking Wisdom  (Read 5028 times)

Seth R

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Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« on: March 26, 2015, 09:57:03 PM »
I am a new member her to ALR and have been a LONG time lurker.. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the posts, especially the tutorials. I have one, small build to my name and am looking to build my brother a rifle for his next five birthdays.

I am looking to build him a rifle in the style of one made in Upstate New York, specifically the Hudson Valley area. I am having a great deal of difficulty finding what the style typically looks like.. I am looking to build a .50 or .54 cal deer rifle. I like the look of the half stock from J.P. Moore, but I would like to see others. I have the Gunsmith of Grenville County and RCA 1 and 2, but I have not see any examples of a Hudson Valley gun.. that I know of. Here is a link to the place I found the J.P. Moore rifle. This is a little too fancy for my skills. (I'm sorry if I didn't hyperlink it correcty)

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3594.0

Are there any examples you all can point me in the direction of? Are there any books or websites dedicated to this particular style? Any and all advise is gladly welcome. I would love to learn and admire all years (1770s-1850s)

Seth R

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2015, 10:06:17 PM »
Seth, welcome to the ALR!

Very few rifles were built in NY in the early colonial period. Most rifles are from the industrial Revolution era, mid 19th Century onward. predominantly percussion.

I have the books of NY firearms. If you have a specific area or style, I can do a little research for you.


I like to think the original of this rifle was made in NY, but in all reality, there is nothing to link it to NY. https://flintrifles.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/american-longrifle-my-copy-of-an-original/
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Seth R

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 10:39:18 PM »
Thank you! My family settled in Germantown, NY and Schenectady/Scotia, NY.. Does that narrow it down? I want to build a rifle that would have been used and carried from our ancestors. I don't know of any builders from that area. I'm leaning toward building a percussion lock (bro has little experience with flint) so a later gun would be desirable for him.. I personally like the older guns.

I'm not sure if this is what you were talking about style.. I like the example you gave me!

Do a lot of later guns (Moore's gun) have a sweep to the buttstock? Its subtle, but its almost opposite of a lehigh sweep.. if that makes sense. Is this to keep the comb more parallel to the line of sight?

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2015, 10:45:37 PM »
Many NY guns have a sweepy S-shaped stock. Divided from PA by mountains, and from MA by rivers, the NY gun style seems to have developed on its own.

I'll see what I can dig up for you on makers from those towns.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 12:19:05 AM »
My family settled in Germantown, NY and Schenectady/Scotia, NY.. Does that narrow it down? I want to build a rifle that would have been used and carried from our ancestors.

 Welcome to the ALR.

 Where did they come from? Maybe they carried a rifle in with them, that may open you up to other schools.

 Tim C.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 12:25:44 AM »
If I recall correctly, the Germantown settlers were transported to the area to make pitch (for preserving ship rigging) from the local forests. However, the forest trees did not yield the right kind of sap for producing pitch. Duh.

There was another German settlement along the Mohawk River, Palatine Bridge.

My understanding is that these people came to the area dirt poor, and probably not many firearms among them. Most NY firearms were smoothbores. Might find some Dutch pieces, and later on, English work.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 12:34:59 AM »
The Hudson Valley was water fowl territory. A very specific style of fowling gun was common, here's a few pics.
http://www.fowlingguns.com/hv328.html
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Seth R

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 04:26:11 AM »
Wow! I must say I am learning a lot from you gentlemen! I checked the records just to be sure and one side a gentleman named Andrew was a Scottish immigrant who was an indentured servant for Robert Livingston (One of the signers of the Declaration). He probably was too poor to own a firearm. They eventually became more well off in the 1820s or there about. Any gunmakers in the Columbia County area or even Albany during this period? 

On the other side I got it wrong and they settled in the Watertown area north of Syracuse. I love hearing what your writing so if you are willing to write, I'm more than willing to listen and learn! I know you all must be incredible busy and I am humbled that you are taking your time to talk with me. Thank you again!

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 05:46:25 AM »
It would be hard to pin down a flintlock rifle to NY, as noted above.  NY was just not rifle territory.  Those who wanted rifles often got them elsewhere during the flint period.  Sir William Johnson sponsored or brought some Lancaster builders to the Mohawk valley, so the story goes.  But though upstate NY is chock full of antique colonial furniture and primitives, you'll find few flintlock rifles, and none of which I know that can be attributed to NY state conclusively.  In contrast, Pennsylvania has produced many hundreds of collectable flintlock rifles.  As noted, THE colonial gun produced in upstate NY was the Hudson Valley fowler, and THE colonial gun associated with Long Island and the NYC area was the Britiish style fowling gun.

So for a NY state rifle you are on the right track thinking of a later, percussion rifle.  Lots of them were perch belly rifles.  Some were quite plain.
Andover, Vermont

Turtle

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 02:19:13 PM »
  I have a halfstock rifle that was built copying the halfstock flintlock in the Remington museum in Ilion,NY and in the Remington history book.  I know opinions differ as to the authenticity of this copy and guns in the Remington history book, but I like it. I like to think my ancestor passing through there in 1818 might have bought one for his trip west.
                                                Turtle

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 05:07:30 PM »
I haven't checked lately, but as you are now a member you can access the Virtual Museum of this website. There are examples of NY rifles in there. See if any strike your fancy.
Best regards,
Dale

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Intro and Seeking Wisdom
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2015, 05:58:19 PM »
A little bit later time, but the original Remington rifle came from somewhere near that area.