Rasps vs draw knives

[ShutEyeHunter]

I've been reassembling my tools for my 1835 w PA build. ( lots of my smithing tools seem to get used for something else & are never seen again)

Looking at tutorials & books, seems like most of the work is done with rasps.

I've used a drawknife on other woodworking & gunsmith projects. Any reason they're not mentioned much on long rifle stocks?

Suppose one reason might be that curly maple chips or chatters too much vs walnut. Any other reasons?  Hate to buy a bunch of cabinet maker rasps if my drawknife would work

[okawbow]

I tend to use cutting tools such as planes, gouges, and draw knives more than rasps. I felel as I have more control of the shape I want. I use medium rasps to flatten and finish contours. I can take off a lot of wood with a razor sharp draw knife, gouge, or round bottom plane.

[volatpluvia]

I really do not like rasps for gunstock work.  I start with the saw.  When enough parts are inletted, I use various chisels and gouges. I have to pay close attention to depth, but you can remove a lot of excess wood quickly, much more quickly than with a rasp. when you get close to shape a rasp can leave tracks you don't see until starting to stain. I use a spokeshave for final shaping. Then files down to sand paper. If you trust yourself enough with the drawknife, go for it.
volatpluvia

[Acer Saccharum]

Don't forget the lowly spokeshave!

Sharpen the leading edge of any cheap plane like the illustration, and it changes the action from paring cuts to scraping action. This is great for curly wood.

[Acer Saccharum]

Rasps are very useful tools. Read the tutorial on rasps before you buy, it will give you some insight into sizes and tooth patterns.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=27762.0

[ShutEyeHunter]

I trust myself with a draw knife for removing wood.  When it comes to severing arteries well that's another story...

I agree with the problem of using rasps-I tend to leave at least a couple of rasp tracks that I end up sanding/filing/scraping out after I've stained. Sometimes leaves me with a wave I'm not happy with.  Nobody else would notice, but I do.

thanks for the spokeshave sharpening trick. I'll add that to my armory!  I'll take a look at the rasp info.

Thanks, Wray

[Lucky R A]

    Let me just say that once you have acquired a good high quality rasp, and learned to use it correctly it will become an indispensable tool.   There is a place for planes and spoke shaves and occasionally a draw knife on a "cooperative" piece of wood, but nothing gives you the control that a fine rasp (used to be a Nicholson 50 from the USA) you can then go from that to your scrapers and sandpaper if desired.  I have seen people get into trouble quickly trying to remove too much wood too quickly with a draw knife.   Use the rasp keeping as much of the rasp as possible in contact with longitudinal surfaces will prevent wibbles and wobbles.  Shaping areas such as the area around the lock is accomplished by turning the rasp with you wrist as you push it forward, this allows you to cut much a tighter radius.  Experiment with a fine rasp and you will not be sorry that you spent the $$ to get a good one.
Ron

[kaintuck]

The forestock stays square, all inletting holes drilled etc......then when I start the thinning down to get it rounded....i use my concave spokeshave....it'll make short work of a 46" forend!
Then my rasps, files, and even a 36" sanding board......

A finger plane, one is 1" wide, the other 1/4" wide gets into tight places, bullnose plane also....

I guess we all use what becomes comfortable......

Marc n tomtom

[rich pierce]

I'm cheap and spokeshaves last forever while rasps dull.  So I save the rasps for as where the spokeshave doesn't work well and for finishing work after using the spokeshave.  I also collect old planes including concave ones and round ones.  These work great too.

[Acer Saccharum]

Rich, I use that round bottom plane you gave me for eating wood off the rough stock. It takes a lot of wood off without a lot of effort. But it's not for fine controlled planing; it's a gobbler. I leave plenty of wood on to rasp and then scrape. And yes, one needs to leave a little xtra wood for scraping off the rasp marks.

[SuperCracker]

I took a cheap, stanley #4 knock off plane opened up the throat and reground the iron to make a good scrub plane.  Eats up wood QUICK!

[shifty]

  I use the #49 and #50 cabinet makes rasps alot for stock work and on Bows,draw knives are good but take your time to learn how to use them, and plan old scrappers are great.

[Acer Saccharum]

A drawknife has no way to control the depth of cut, thus will follow the grain to the bone(or barrel) if you're not careful. They give me the willies on a curly thin forstock. One moment of inattention, and poof! It's a halfstock!

But others like the drawknife a lot, so to each his own.

[WadePatton]

A drawknife has no way to control the depth of cut, thus will follow the grain to the bone(or barrel) if you're not careful. They give me the willies on a curly thin forstock. One moment of inattention, and poof! It's a halfstock!

But others like the drawknife a lot, so to each his own.

As i see it-

It has controls, dos manos!

but no automatic "stops"

I got in more trouble with the handsaw last time.   But did hit it with the draw knife some.  But then I had no proper rasp, but a hoof rasp!

[David R. Pennington]

I have several drawknives, my favorite is a very old one made from a rasp! I use the drawknife for rough shaping and the spoke shave for finer work. I have a couple iron spoke shaves but my favorite is a small wood body one with a laminated Sheffield blade that sharpens like a razor. I use planes when I can. I do a lot of shaping with gouges. I don't like rasps much because you have to work too much to get the tooth marks out. Drawknives can be controlled to cut very finely. (You could also get into the bevel up - bevel down discussion here). They must be kept very sharp. You can tell pretty quick if you hit contrary grain and then change your tack.
I need to try the scraping grinding on one of my planes. I am a little afraid. Maybe I'll try it on a block plane first.

[Dphariss]

I've been reassembling my tools for my 1835 w PA build. ( lots of my smithing tools seem to get used for something else & are never seen again)

Looking at tutorials & books, seems like most of the work is done with rasps.

I've used a drawknife on other woodworking & gunsmith projects. Any reason they're not mentioned much on long rifle stocks?

Suppose one reason might be that curly maple chips or chatters too much vs walnut. Any other reasons?  Hate to buy a bunch of cabinet maker rasps if my drawknife would work

I use a fishtail gouge for heavy wood removal in some areas and a big flat chisel in others. Faster and less tiresome than a rasp. Used a 1/2 round Stanley Surform for years. I broke the blade a few years ago and have never ordered another. Using cutting tools for heavy woor removal requires care and understanding of grain flow.
I never use a rasp coarser than a Pattern Makers Rasp.  Common wood rasps tend to tear the wood. I finalize with rasps, files and scrapers. Scrapers will cut contours a file has difficulty with. But the gunstocker needs to know how to use them all.

Dan

[Kermit]

Not all drawkniives are created equal. Some are best suited to use when framing a barn. I have a drawknife that was used by my great-grandfather when coopering. My grandfather mostly used it for shaping spokes and fellowes. I was taught to use it to make toy boats when I was 5.

Learn to skew the blade and it will help with control. Straight handled knives are sometimes better. For the kind of shaping we're talking here, look for what are called "carvers drawkniives." The length of the cutting edge is shorter, as well as the width of the blade. They come straight, concave, and convex, and with a wide array of handles. Keep them sharp. Should go without saying.

I have a pair of Northwest Native style adzes that work well for me shaping some woods, but I stay away from highly figured and very hard woods. There are lots of ways to skin a board.

[WadePatton]

I use a fishtail gouge for heavy wood removal in some areas and a big flat chisel in others... the gunstocker needs to know how to use them all.

Dan

Hey Dan, when you going to make us another "wood removal" video?

Methinks one cannot predict exactly which tools his bench should contain in the beginning as different boards can produce different challenges.  That it's going to take several stocks to get the "most used/favored" tools sorted out as they'll vary by individual and his feel/sharpening skills, and of course the final say comes from the grain.

That's my love/hate thing with wood-just when you get the grain figgered--it changes or you're done with that section and have to go learn another.  This is about all I've learned so far in stocking: Doing good work in wood with hand tools is mostly a matter of reading/adapting to the flow of the grain.

I've just added a real gouge (not the tiny inletting sort) and a cabinet makers rasp to my bench and spoke shave-since last time.  Probably add more this year.  Eventually some things will fall from favor and others will rise-

As the Grain Turns.

I'm cheap and spokeshaves last forever while rasps dull.  So I save the rasps for as where the spokeshave doesn't work well and for finishing work after using the spokeshave...

Excellent point.  As Townie might have said:  Only sharp woodwoorking tools are interesting.

Now for the ultimate in rasps, go dig up the hand-stitched rasps thread and find the Liogier company and all those beatimus tools they make.  I could spend major wampum there in a few minutes.

Oh my i just dug this up, a well-done wood-working video featuring Liogier tools and a lot of other stuff, time-lapse.  Not a gunstock, but a few days of carving compressed in to 2 minutes, then finishing/display and a recap of the rasps:  3:47 total time.

   

[ShutEyeHunter]

Thanks for the advice!

Have used the drawknife to rough out shotgun stocks in walnut & walking sticks from peach wood, but walnut's not maple.  Can see how,things might get out of hand on a fullstock

Being I can never have too many tools (or too much beer), I'll order up some of your suggestions and give them a try

Again, thanks

[ShutEyeHunter]

I use a fishtail gouge for heavy wood removal in some areas and a big flat chisel in others... the gunstocker needs to know how to use them all.

Dan

Oh my i just dug this up, a well-done wood-working video featuring Liogier tools and a lot of other stuff, time-lapse.  Not a gunstock, but a few days of carving compressed in to 2 minutes, then finishing/display and a recap of the rasps:  3:47 total time.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpLgt-P05XM

Watched the video-nice to know those L rasps don't chatter.  I'd have broken off those two eye stalks on the snail about 5 times before I was done

[Dave B]

Great topic, One of the best things about the building a long rifle from the blank is the use of the tools. I love that best of all. Taking the chunk of wood and bringing the shape to life. I Like using the draw knife for my early work on the stock. I love the scene in the Gunsmith of Williamsburg where they show the use of the hatchet to rough out the butstock. Boy if that wont make you pucker up I don't know what will. I have tried this a couple times at just the beginning of the shaping and it kind of works but I am clearly not very skilled at using one. I have acquired one of those shaping hatchets used for squaring logs and think it could work well for this. I have
shaped the majority of the last of my projects with the blades of cutting tools cleaning up with the pattern makers rasp and moving to the scraper. I skip sand paper using steel wool for the buffing out as it were. I get the benefits of using a pre carve for getting the project along but the joy is in the use of the tools for me to bring out the final projects shape and form.

[ShutEyeHunter]

Yeah, the tools are (part of) what makes it enjoyable for me...Even if it's harder and I make some "small"mistakes

I like using edged tools for making period stocks and wood furniture. As my mega-buck antique collector friend said "they couldn't afford sandpaper back then"