Tang sight

[Robby]

I am in the process of putting together parts for a big bore, flintlock, English sporting rifle. I would like to use a hook breech (not written in the stone of my particularly hard head) but, would also like to fit a tang mounted, vernier type sight. Would mounting the sight on a good and tight hook breech tang, render it unreliable, as far as consistency? After of reading this forum, I have been experimenting with a tang mounted, adjustable peep sight and it seems to be a great help in defeating OES (old eyes syndrome) and would like to somehow incorporate these two features. Thanks!
Robby

[BrownBear]

Unless you are looking for much more precision than I have ever managed, it shouldn't be an issue at all.  I've got tang peeps (Lyman 57's and TC Hunters) on a number of hooked breech rifles, and I notice NO change in POI following the dismount and remount of a barrel.  I'm not shooting matches and certainly not shooting beyond 100 yards, but group size and location simply have not changed since I mounted any of the sights.  I can't say the same for a number of take-down cartridge guns and guns with claw mount scopes.  They can change so much I really hate to risk the sight-in by using the take-down or dismount possibilities with them.

[northmn]

I just got the barrel inletted on my project similar to yours, an English styled flintlock in 58.  Looking at making the hooked breech, but really have no use for one in a flintlock as I do not clean by immersing them in water.  Unfortunately about every picture you see of an English gun shows a hooked breech.  Many of the long range models had tang sights and had no problem as the breechs were tightly fit.

DP

[Robby]

Thanks BrownBear, northmn, I guess I'll give it a go. I don't plan on using this for shooting matches, heck, you can't find one around here anyway. Mostly it will be an interesting project, and my own shooting pleasure. Course, hunting will also play its part in this.
The barrel I'm planning is an Oregon, straight taper, 35" long, 1-3/16" at the breech, tapering to 1"at the muzzle, 1 in 80 twist cut rifling, .010(?) deep,.69 cal., 7/8-14 x 1/2" deep thread for the breech plug. This probably should be in the gun building forum, but this place seems to be where the people that are knowledgeable about these big bores hang out.
Does anyone know a place that sells a hook breech (flintlock), Patent type or otherwise for this breech diameter or larger, that could be filed in? I have made a couple for smaller calibers, but for this bore size, it seems a bit daunting! Thanks again.
Robby

[BrownBear]

Before going on to talk about the tang, I recommend that you look into the TC Hunter Peep.  It's almost an order of magnitude smaller than the Lyman 57, so it just works out better on a hunting rifle that doesn't need all those big adjustment surfaces.  At at $47.28, it's cheaper too.   Mounting screw spacing is 1.50" CTC.

As for the tang for that big of a barrel, I'd start by talking to the folks at The Gun Works.  Since they supply the Oregon barrels, I'd think they must have a good answer.  They list a 1 3/8" percussion version and a 1 1/8" flint version on their site, but I don't see a 1 3/8" flint.  It looks as though you might have enough meat on the tang of that percussion version to allow filing down to match barrel profile, while using the flintlock breech rather than the percussion.  Speculation, but hope springs eternal.

[Daryl]

On an 80" twist, I'd go with .007" to .008" deep on the grooves, whether round or square bottomed, if possible, grooves double the width of the lands.(minimum of 1.5:1 ratio, groove to lands) This will make it much easier to load with any hardness of ball, ie: any lead you can find from linotype to pure lead and it will foul less so will also be easier to clean.

Good luck.

[Robby]

I went with a 1-1/8" diameter at the breech, they assure me that this will be plenty strong enough. Kind of light though, seems to me. I will be forging my own t/g and b/p and have some good pictures of typical t/g's but no b/p's, I'm using the "Mortimer Gunmakers" book, fair pictures, almost no dimensions, is there a place I might look to find a picture of one or something close., Also, would a 3/8" ramrod have been typical for these guns or maybe 7/16"?
 Robby

[Daryl]

My 14 bore rifle had a 1 1/8" barrel as does friend Keith's .75.  Both have patent breeches and both are plenty strong. Make the rifle to come out at 9 to 9 1/4 pounds and you will be happy.  Mine had a 32" barrel, straight octagonal as if Keith's.

Keith started out using 200gr. 2F with patched round balls, while I found a good close range load for plinking using 82gr. 3F GOEX and patched ball.  This load shot into a couple inches at 50 meters but opened to about 4 1/2" at 100 meters, while anything from 140gr. up to 165 put them into 1 1/2" at the same 100 meter range.  At only 50 meters, with the heavier loads, 1" holes resulted form 5 shots.  82gr. (3 drams) was OK for plinking as I said, and at 1,225fps, was plenty for deer and black bear.  I preferred the accuracy and flat shooting of the heavier loads - for work.

7/16" rod is right for the muzzle end and can be tapered to 3/8" to the bottom.

Go to Track's web site - probably some pictures in there in the guns for sale.