Unknown flint lock ?

[gunmaker]

Anybody have an idea as to what this is ?  No markings of any kind.  Silver lined pan, 3-3/4" long, with a hook on plate front for concealed screw attachment.  English pistol ?, is it reproduction or original ?    Tom

  click to see 3 pics

[Mark Elliott]

I don't know what it is, but I would love to have it.  I think it would work great on English pistol or shotgun.

[gunmaker]

I was thinking English .30 cal. "Rook Rifle"  or slim pistol.....??

[Mike Brooks]

English pistol ca.1820 or maybe a bit earlier, say as early as 1805-1810.

[mike blair]

is it me or does it look like the one in recreating the american longrifle(p.154) said to be made by jacob kunz?mabe,kinda sorta.

[Acer Saccharum]

is it me or does it look like the one in recreating the american longrifle(p.154) said to be made by jacob kunz?mabe,kinda sorta.

Hmmmmm.....that border looks very similar to the one Kuntz used.

[SuperCracker]

that looks like the locks I see on French and Austrian guns from the early 19th C.

[SuperCracker]

is it me or does it look like the one in recreating the american longrifle(p.154) said to be made by jacob kunz?mabe,kinda sorta.

Hmmmmm.....that border looks very similar to the one Kuntz used.

It really does look very similar.

[Bob Roller]

Anybody have an idea as to what this is ?  No markings of any kind.  Silver lined pan, 3-3/4" long, with a hook on plate front for concealed screw attachment.  English pistol ?, is it reproduction or original ?    Tom

  click to see 3 pics

Let's see the INSIDE of this lock. It may be English or a good repro. looks good no matter what at least externally.

Bob Roller

[Acer Saccharum]

Bob, if you click on the first photo of this posting, it takes you to the other photos. There is an internal shot with them.

[Acer Saccharum]

I don't think this is a Kuntz lock, but it's very nice.

[Hungry Horse]

 If it lacks a fly, it may indicate it was a pistol lock instead of a long gun lock.

           Hungry Horse

[RAT]

Not an expert... but the post supporting the back of the top jaw (don't know the official term for this) doesn't look English. It also has a detachable pan, which doesn't seem English to me. Like I said... I'm not an expert... but I'd guess French.

[FlintFan]

I'm leaning more to saying that it is French/Belgium, mainly do to the fact that the pan/plate wasn't forged as one piece in the typical English tradition.  In the view of the inside of the plate, it looks like the pan was made separately and added as in the continental tradition.  Of course that is not an absolute, and I'm sure someone will come along showing a confirmed English made lock with a separate pan.

And the pan most likely isn't silver lined, it is probably platinum.  So be careful where you lay it down or else someone might come by and chisel out the platinum to sell to a pawn shop.  

[JTR]

I think it is probably French, or French style. And no, not a Kunz. While the border engraving is similar to the Kunz shown, that was a popular style, back then, and now.

Original or Reproduction? It looks in great condition, and not all rusted together. So I'd take a tight fitting screw driver and see if you can wiggle one of the screws loose. A little WD-40 would help. On an original, a screw from this time period will most likely have course threads, and not the fine threads you see today. Also, any file marks on the parts? Guys today tend to polish all the file marks away, guys back then tended not to.

Either way, it's a nice looking lock, and like Mark, wouldn't mind having it!

PS, as for English pans, Ketland made some detachable ones.

John

[eddillon]

More than likely, the "silver" lined pan is platinum.  Not held in high regard as an ornamental metal in those days but makers were keenly aware of platinum's corrosion resistance.  I have an early 19th century French lock that has many similarities to the lock shown by you and it is eerily close to the Boutet in the thread.  It has a platinum lined pan.

Anybody have an idea as to what this is ?  No markings of any kind.  Silver lined pan, 3-3/4" long, with a hook on plate front for concealed screw attachment.  English pistol ?, is it reproduction or original ?    Tom

 click to see 3 pics

[eddillon]

Note the similarities to the 19th century lock I am using for a Boutet style build.

that looks like the locks I see on French and Austrian guns from the early 19th C.

[Mike Brooks]

Well, just to blather on a bit......the English followed French styling, generally 10 or 15 years behind in style. Both the English and the French (as well as some Philadelphia engravers) used this type of running leaf border. Also the nice double pictured is obviously French, but the English started copying that lock style also. The style of cocks on the double are referred to as "French style cocks" when referring to English locks.
 I suppose the lock in question could be english , french , or some other continental area. I wouldn't bet my life on any particular area unless I could see the whole gun.

[gunmaker]

There is no whole gun Mike, was in a box of gunsmiths stuff his family sold me.   There are file marks on metal in both rain gutters & fine file marks other places too.   The lock bolt is 5-40 thd.....?......