older siler locks

[rlm]

I have two  left handed long rifles both with older Silver locks CA. 1985. They both spark very well and are for the most part reliable ignition systems. My problem is about 25% of the time the  frizen will not cam over to completely expose the priming powder to the shower of sparks. Sometimes this causes a misfire, sometimes not. I have tried adjusting the flint, bevel up, bevel down, using different flint clearance at half cock etc. I still get the same results. Have any of you ever had similar problems?  And how did you fix it? I wanted some ideas before I tried something stupid like screwing with the spring or altering the cock which may not solve the problem. Thanx,

[chubby]

rim, i would remove the frizzen spring n make sure the frizzen will move easily back and forth by hand to make sure the screw is not to tight it it only holds it in place. then i would check the frizzen spring and toe and make sure there is no drag marks! smooth up the toe and put a little oil on the screw and toe hope this may help you out.  Chubby

[T*O*F]

3 possibles I have encountered:
1.  Fouling buildup on the barrel causes the frizzen to stall.
2.  Lock bolts over time cause the lock to compress the wood and the frizzen starts to drag on the barrel.
3.  Hole thru frizzen has enlarged over time causing frizzen to be loose on its screw.  The feather spring then puts pressure on the shoe and tilts the frizzen into the barrel causing it to stall.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I made this lock using an old Siler percussion plate, a Siler frizzen and internals, and a pan, frizzen spring, and cock from TOW.  Although the observations by TOF and others are certainly astute, I have experienced the same thing from a brand new lock.  On the lock in the picture, note that I have filed the toe of the frizzen to move the contact pivot back to almost directly under the pivot screw.  Also, the business end of the frizzen spring slopes downward, to accentuate the upward force the spring plays on the frizzen's toe, once it has started to rotate.  This particular lock kicks the frizzen fully open almost immediately - perhaps 1/4" off the pan - and sparks like a cutting torch...(minor exaggeration).  This rifle has never missed fire.  I went to the trouble of making the lock up myself from parts, to best exemplify the work of Andrew Verner.

[rlm]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Taylor, having looked at my locks I think a little careful "stoning" may be the answer as I have over the coarse of time considered and checked most of the other suggested remedies. BTW I really like your Verner. Thanks again.

[jerrywh]

I have had this problem on a lot of different locks. Most of them can be fixed by grinding a tiny bit off of the back of the frizzen toe. That will let the frizzen cam over sooner. Look at the black line on the back of the frizzen toe in this photo. That is where I am talking about.

[Gaeckle]

I have had this problem on a lot of different locks. Most of them can be fixed by grinding a tiny bit off of the back of the frizzen toe. That will let the frizzen cam over sooner. Look at the black line on the back of the frizzen toe in this photo. That is where I am talking about.

This is a good fix......some of those frizzen springs are gawd-awful strong and may also cause a binding affect.

[Stophel]

The Siler frizzen spring looks like a ski ramp.  The frizzen really has to go uphill to snap open.  The top "arm" of the spring should be as horizontal and flat as possible, and it snaps over smooth and fine every time.



The "snapover point" is right at the little clearance notch on the spring.  Which is right where the flint reaches the very bottom edge of the frizzen.  Perfect harmony.     With the cock down, the frizzen will not stay down if you push it down.  Push it down to the flint, and turn it loose, and it snaps open with authority. 

If you look at a lot of 18th century locks, you will notice that their frizzen springs tend to be very straight, and very horizontal, avoiding the problems you get with a very curved spring....something that plagues several modern made locks.

[Jim Chambers]

Jerry suggestion is exactly right.  When I'm checking our assembled locks before shipping them out (Yes, I personally check each one.) I sometimes find one that does not want to kick the frizzen over quickly enough.  I remove the frizzen, touch the frizzen foot to a belt grinder, and then repolish the foot.  It doesn't take removing  much metal at all to correct the problem.