62 Caliber Twist

[ejcrist]

I ordered the Jaeger rifle kit from Track of the Wolf and received everything within a few days. I was inventorying the parts and noticed they sent me a Rice 1:66 barrel when I ordered the Rice 1:72. I called and the fellow on the other end checked one of the stock barrels and saw it was marked 1:72 on the package but the barrel was 1:66, so I'm not going to be able to get a 1:72 from TOTW. I had my heart set on a 1:72 but I know that Colerain makes the 1:66 and I think Green Mountain does too; I think only Rice makes the 1:72. At this point I don't know if I should call Rice and see if I can exchange the 1:66 for a 1:72 with them or just live with the 1:66. My question: Is there that much of a difference in performance/accuracy between the 1:66 and 1:72? I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill if there's no real difference but I want to use the rifle primarily for hunting and prefer the slower twist for hotter loads. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Gene

[Daryl]

My 14 bore (.69) has a 66" twist. It is very accurate - you will or would not notice any difference between 66" and 72", imho.  A 72" twist bl. may or may not demand more powder.

My rifle's accuracy stayed brilliant, right up to 200gr. 2F - need more? - I don't think so.

[Hungry Horse]

 The 1 in 66 will take less powder to stabilize the ball than a 1 in 72. The recoil will be less as well. Of course some people just love a swift smack in the puss. I have had better results from a 1 in 66 than the slower twists.

               Hungry Horse

[ejcrist]

Thanks for the info gentlemen - much appreciated. I called Rice and spoke to a fellow there and he said TOTW only buys 1:66 barrels from him in the 62 caliber Jaeger so it sounds like 1:66 is sort of the standard. He said he could make me a 1:72 but the 1:66 will do everything I wanted for hunting with charges up around 120 grains of 2F which is more than I intend to shoot, so I'll stick with the 1:66. This is the same thing you guys were saying. 

Also, to TOTW's credit, I noticed they corrected the references to 1:72 twists for this barrel to the correct 1:66 everywhere on their website within a few minutes of me telling them about it. I've ordered from them a lot in the past and always been very pleased with their service.

[Daryl]

The one .58 I had that sported a 72" bl. would not group at 100yards with less than 120gr. 2f GOEX - that was in the mid 70's.  The 66" twist .58 of the same era made me use 140gr. 2F - go figure - late 70's.  Both guns could be relied upon to shoot 2MOA at the 100yard range with the open sights, off double bags.

[Stan]

If you shoot a lot I would use a 1-48 for a 62 cal, however the very best would be a 1-48 in a gain twist.

[ejcrist]

The one .58 I had that sported a 72" bl. would not group at 100yards with less than 120gr. 2f GOEX - that was in the mid 70's.  The 66" twist .58 of the same era made me use 140gr. 2F - go figure - late 70's.  Both guns could be relied upon to shoot 2MOA at the 100yard range with the open sights, off double bags.

That is strange. Well, like they say, every barrel is an individual. That's a hefty charge for both though. I think the biggest charge of 2F I ever shot in my 50 was 90 grains. That happened to be the most accurate so I left it there. It has a 1:66" twist also. I'm not a big fan of heavy recoil but I won't hesitate to practice with whatever charge is necessary for best accuracy. I'm planning on using this rifle for hog hunting and I don't think you can ever be over-gunned when it comes to hogs. So if it turns out to be 120 grains I'll grin and bear it.

[ejcrist]

If you shoot a lot I would use a 1-48 for a 62 cal, however the very best would be a 1-48 in a gain twist.

You would? I have a 45 with 1:48 but I don't like it much. It's an off-the-shelf Pedersoli I bought a long time ago at Dixons Muzzleloading in Kempton. It shoots ok with 60 grains 3F but not with 65 or 55. I don't know if it's just that particular rifle or what not. Maybe it's just because ever since I assembled my first rifle (a 40 cal) a few years ago I'm now prejudiced after shooting with a much better barrel than the factory stuff. The 40 also has a 1:48 but it has much deeper grooves and just shoots a whole lot more accurately.

By the way, I used to live in Stewartstown not to far from where you're at. I really miss it back there. I used to spend a fair amount of time over at Cabin Creek and was a member of the Susquehanna Powder Horns over in Windsor. There aren't near as many flintlock shooters where I live now in AZ.

[Jerry V Lape]

There may be more than you know.  Check with the NMLRA for the local clubs around here.  Both Ben Avery and Rio Salado have regular shoots about every week at Rio Salado.  The Winter National shoot was just here last week at Ben Avery.  And there is at least one other club in the valley that usually shoots on private land up  toward Sun Flower.  I am in Tempe. 

[Dphariss]

I have a 36" GM I had recut to 62 with a 48" twist to cut into pistol barrels. Maybe I will breech it and shoot a few rounds at this length to see if it blows patches with heavy charges.

Dan

[Daryl]

I didn't mention that in those .58's at that time (which is why I included the dates), I was using powders that Lyman listed in it's handbook (black cover) - GO & Curtis & Harvey and I also used Meteor (Made in Scotland) which also was garbage powder.  Lyman loaded right to 190gr. GO in their ZOUAVE with .562' round balls and .020" patches and that load developed only 8,100LUPressure at 1,700fps.
.
They also loaded to 150gr. with 570gr. bullets in the .58's- using GO powder.  Do these compute to today's powders -  NO! In that .58 Hawken with the Large barrel, I was running 675gr. bullets with 160gr. of 2f GO. for 1,325fps - they kicked a bit more than I liked.

Since you know how to load decent components, Dan, I doubt very much you'll get 'blown' patches with any load you can or would use in a .62.

Accuracy is another thing - hard to say - one of those must-do things.

What's a heavy charge for a .62 using today's powders?

Both my .40 and .45 rifle barrels have 48" twists. Both barrels run over 2,200fps when using LHV lube and both shoot their best at that speed - with LHV lube, whether I am using 3F or 2F.

I'm glad it's coming back to the market. I have 1 bottle left. Only problem with LHV is it demands more powder to get it to shoot it's best but once there, man does it shoot!

[rich pierce]

Some originals especially big bore Germanic rifles had a fast twist.  I have an original "jaeger" rifle barrel about .600 bore with about 1 in 30"!  Maybe with the short barrel, less velocity, it needed a faster twist to stabilize?

[Daryl]

Could be, Rich, but a LOT of guns of the period, specifically German and English had fast twists or twists we deem to be too fast for heavier charges. Light charges are easier to shoot - perhaps that also had a bearing on the rates of twist. Usually only the wealthy - aristocracy, got to hunt and to discomfort many of them would not be in the best interest of the gun makers.  ie: "XXXX makes rifles that are Most Pleasant to Shoot" (just a theory).

  The lower the ball's velocity, the faster the twist was needed for accuracy, but of course, the fast twists would not allow the heavy charges that make quicker kills or make longer range accurate hitting much easier.

Forsyth puts this trend to faster twists up to the ease of shooting light charges of powder.   Most deer hunting (England and Europe) was done with the accompaniment of dogs, so any game wounded was not lost and usually quickly brought to bag, thus to wound was just as much the desire as to kill outright and that these fast twists guns did that (wounded) better than any other.

He also noted he had a 13 bore rifle (.705") that had a 36" twist and would not allow anything over about 2 drams of powder or his (probably loose fitting) ball would strip and shoot inaccurately. He said it's trajectory over 100yards was 13" and was utterly useless for accurately shooting game.

[rich pierce]

I'd like to use the barrel but the rifling is too far gone to freshen.  Only way to use it would be to line it, I think.

[ejcrist]

That's interesting about original jaeger rifles having fast twists. I did some research and found a lot to support that statement. I ordered the Shumway book on jaegers from TOW and can't wait to read more. I also read most European jaegers had slings which is something that was largely absent on American longrifles. As a result I ordered a sling and a set of swivels - don't want to be the only guy with a jaeger missing a sling.