Author Topic: Worm holes! (Read 9451 times)

Dennis Glazener · « **on:** April 07, 2015, 05:27:04 PM »

I know, best way to handle them is to avoid wood that has them!

I had a pretty nice piece of maple that had a few worm hole in it. I thought they would all be avoided when I had one of my patterns duped. Stock guy was able to avoid the ones showing but several others ended up in the butt area. Guess this one will now be my gun! Anyone have any novel ways to plug them? Years ago I built a early VA Valley rifle and it was full of worm holes. I intended that one to be for me but a man saw it and just had to have it so I sold it to him. On that one I used wood glue mixed with sawdust and I wasn't particularly happy with the outcome, even though the new owner loved it.

I have enough of the original wood, for this one, to use it to fill the worm tracks. I have been thinking about drilling holes where the worm tracks are then turning matching dowels from the excess wood that I have. I want to turn the dowels so the grain runs cross ways of the dowel so it would match the butt grain. Anyone ever tried this? I believe a 1/4" hole will be the max I would need to drill.

Remember this is for me, not a customer, but I still would like it to turn out as un-obvious as possible.
Dennis

JTR · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2015, 05:39:54 PM »

I've done that Dennis, and it works well.
Be sure to keep the orientation of the plugs exact to that of the stock where you're going to use them, use similarly colored/grained wood, make a tight fit, and don't let a glue line show.
John

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2015, 05:49:47 PM »

I have several blanks with one worm hole showing. One blank was too long for my project, so I thought I would shorten it before mailing it off to have the barrel inlet. I cross cut the blank, and my jaw hit the floor when I saw the end grain. The end of the blank looked like a sponge for all the tunnels.

There must have been bugs in the wood when I blanked it out, for they sure made a mess of it. Some of the hardest maple I've ever handled. Chewed up by naughty little creatures. Nicholson #49 teeth on 'em.

T*O*F · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2015, 06:06:14 PM »

Who was it that ever decided wormholes were bad? They add character to the gun.

Fill them with black Acraglas and stain the gun with aqua fortis. By the time you finish aging the finish they will appear as though they were just imperfections in the wood, not holes, and they will all but disappear.

In addition to the twig inclusions at the top, there are at least half a dozen worm holes in this stock that have been filled. How many can you find and the stock isn't even stained?

Marcruger · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2015, 07:31:27 PM »

Hi Dennis.

I am no expert, but I am not sure that there is a great way to hide the holes, unless you later are planning to "age" areas of the gun very dark.

My concern would be that anything you do to glue in sawdust or a plug will result in a light spot where the glue prevents stain from taking.

I have seen several gorgeous Appalachian guns with wormholes or even stabilized cracks on these boards (Eric's fantastic East Tennessee Squirrel rifle come to mind). I'd say rather than hiding it....flaunt it!

A second concern would be "are the worms/bugs/eggs DEAD"? And I mean really dead - not mostly dead as Miracle Max would say. I'd hate to have them eat their way out later. My parents had a "distressed" coffee table that over time became swiss cheese.

I think the other positive option mentioned was to fill the holes with black epoxy bedding, and leave them as character. I think a lot hinges on your finish decisions.

Just my opinion, and I am a total novice, so take it for what it's worth. I look forward to seeing the rifle when finished. Bringing the project to Williamsburg?

Best wishes sir. Marc

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2015, 09:45:28 PM »

If you are making a presentation piece, I would find another piece of wood. Otherwise, I would leave worm holes, bark inclusions, and knots as they are. If necessary, I would use some thin CA to stabilize wood that might come out. Otherwise, I would do nothing until the gun was finished and then fill the holes with black wax. I had a large bark inclusion on the forearm of my chunk gun and none of your ever saw it. At least, none of you ever mentioned seeing it. I waited and waited, and finally had to bring it to your attention. I treated it just as I said above.

rich pierce · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2015, 10:13:42 PM »

Lots of 18h century Germanic guns have patches all over. Usually rectangular. I assume out in with hide glue.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2015, 10:54:14 PM »

Quote

and don't let a glue line show.
John

John,
I sure could use some pointers here. How do you get the dowel in a tight hole without having at least a thin glue line? I had planned to stain both pieces before I put the dowel in place.
Dennis

Kermit · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2015, 11:33:32 PM »

Dennis, any reason to turn "dowels" rather than use a plug cutter? You can get pretty cheap ones. Then I think trying the process on some scrap, clear through your intended finishing process, could tell you if you want to go ahead. You might also think about using a square mortising chisel to make the holes and plugging with square pieces. It might be in keeping with Rich's remark on Germanic guns.

smallpatch · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2015, 12:38:33 AM »

Dennis,

I've done it both ways.
1) left them to add character to the piece,

2) made a do well from the same piece of wood allowing for grain and curl, drill and glue in place. It won't be invisible, but darn near.
Still more character!

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2015, 12:39:47 AM »

Worm holes- no big deal. That's just me though.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2015, 01:53:39 AM »

I'd mix up some AcraGlas, stain it black or at least dark brown, drip it into the holes leaving a puddle on the surface, and then cover the puddle with some clear packing tape. The tape will hold the glue where you want it until it cures. then dress the glue and wood together, and proceed as normal. These glued up spots will add a lot of interest to the stock.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2015, 05:08:03 AM »

Big open channels that are exposed in the shaping process are the real issue.

whitebear · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2015, 06:49:40 AM »

Just use it as is and tell everyone that you did it on purpose!

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2015, 04:02:24 PM »

Quote

Dennis, any reason to turn "dowels" rather than use a plug cutter? You can get pretty cheap ones. Then I think trying the process on some scrap, clear through your intended finishing process, could tell you if you want to go ahead.

None other than I have two lathe's and no plug cutters. I do plan to try the process on scrap before I go with the stock.

Thanks to everyone with suggestions, some I had not thought of.
Dennis

B.Habermehl · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2015, 01:52:00 AM »

The youth trade gun I built for my grandsons had a bunch of critter holes in it. It sounds a bit barbaric but I simply filled them with dark stained epoxy. I made no attempt to hide them. Just additional character to me.BJH

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2015, 03:41:11 AM »

I would leave the holes. If I were going to plug them I would whittle not turn them and make them slightly tapered, glue and drive them in tight.

Robby · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2015, 12:45:19 PM »

Wormholes, hmmm, I use them to take me to galaxy's far, far away.
Robby

Pete G. · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2015, 04:16:23 PM »

I would not use a dowel at all. A dowel will have end grain on the stock surface that soaks up stain, finish, etc., whereas a cut plug will not. If you are going to turn a plug, turn it across the grain (if that's even possible) to avoid the end grain being on the stock' surface.

smallpatch · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2015, 05:36:04 PM »

Dennis,

What ever shape plug you decide to use, just inlet it like you would anything else. If the inlet is tight, the glue line will be nearly invisible.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2015, 06:09:16 PM »

Quote

I would not use a dowel at all. A dowel will have end grain on the stock surface that soaks up stain, finish, etc., whereas a cut plug will not. If you are going to turn a plug, turn it across the grain (if that's even possible) to avoid the end grain being on the stock' surface.

That's what I meant by "so the grain runs cross way of the dowel"
Dennis

black ed · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2015, 05:34:47 AM »

Dennis,
Do you have a photo of the area of worm holes? What color will the stock be and what stain and what finish? This can be a learning experience for us all. Before retirement I ran some large finish carpenter crews and I have learned every wood and stain and finish can tell a story. I have seen repairs magical disappear.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2015, 08:48:41 PM »

Quote

Dennis,
Do you have a photo of the area of worm holes? What color will the stock be and what stain and what finish? This can be a learning experience for us all. Before retirement I ran some large finish carpenter crews and I have learned every wood and stain and finish can tell a story. I have seen repairs magical disappear.

No photos yet, I have some worm tracks there as well and hope to rasp most of them out. I will post some photos when I get the wood down a little more. I probably will not be able to work on it until after I get back from the Norris show, too much other stuff I have to get done, this retired life is about to work me to death!
Dennis

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Author Topic: Worm holes! (Read 9451 times)

black ed