First time adding cast off to a stock

[conquerordie]

Anybody have any easy method. I've never done it on and gun I've built. I will be starting on a jaeger soon and I am thinking about attempting this for the first time. Only instructions I've seen are from Gunsmith of Greenville County. I'm sitting here looking at a nice piece of sugar  maple from Tiger Hunt that is 27/8 inches thick. Hate to just waste it. Thanks
Greg

[Stophel]

Simply draw a center line on top of the stock in line with the center of the barrel, and at the butt end, mark 1/4" to 3/8" to the right of that line (assuming right hand).  Connect this spot to the center line round about where the nose of the comb will be and that will mark the centerline of the comb (more or less).  You're just "bending" the stock.   

[smylee grouch]

You might want to consider putting a little on the toe line also.

[conquerordie]

What exactly do you mean pulling the toe line? Just so my brain can wrap itself around this. Stophel, you just wrote that so simply that I'm embarrassed that I could not figure,that out. Sometimes these things need to be pointed out in order to have that AH HA! Moment. Thanks guys
Greg

[Long John]

They mean that if you have 1/4th inch cast-off in the comb line you want to mark the same amount of cast off, or for some slightly more, on the toe line.  That way the butt stays vertical but just nudged over a scoche.  Some folks like 3/8ths inch other like 1/4th inch and others like 1/8th inch for cast off.  It depends on the length of pull that the shooter likes too.  When I build a rifle for some one I whittle the stock down to almost finished dimensions and then I have them over to try the rifle on.  The close their eyes and mount the rifle.  then open their eyes and find out where the rear sight is relative to the front.  then I shave off what needs shaved so that they can hit with their eyes closed.  It takes a while but its worth it if you are a serious shooter.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[smylee grouch]

Thanks Long John.  Greg: you inlet the center of the butt comb to the top cast off line and the center of the toe of the butt plate to the bottom cast off line. If you have a very wide butt( on the gun) you might need more cast.

[conquerordie]

Ok not it's sinking in. I have yet to make the buttplate but it will be at least 21/4 inches wide, maybe a touch wider. Again now that you explained the toe line it makes perfect sense. I'm going to replicate an original rifle from Herman Historica's website. It doesn't mention cast off, but they never do in the descriptions. I'm assuming it has some.
Greg

[Stophel]

I like a little toe-out, myself.  I don't bother trying to lay it out with a line or anything, I just do it as I put the buttplate on.  (Toe-out helps keep a wide toe from jabbing into your chest and helps keep the gun more naturally level.  Your shoulder/chest is not straight up and down.    )

If you're building a German rifle, cast off is essential.  The butt should generally have under 2 1/2" of drop at the heel, a comb that is a LOT closer to level than on a lot of later American rifles, and plenty of cast off.  The cheek lays against the side of the stock, rather than hunkered down over top of it....  or floating over top of it as with a lot of hockey stick guns.   

[Stophel]

Not a German gun, but done the same way (minus the nice big flat cheekpiece).



See how the whole butt is off to the right side.

This has a little bit of toe out, not much, and you can't really tell in the photo.  This toe is not all that wide, though.

[conquerordie]

Ok, I now understand how to lay the cast off out on the stock, and understand the toe line being off set as well. So the last missing bit of info is how much wood is needed for the height of the cheekpiece? I'm looking for measurements off of originals, earlier the better as the gun I am copying dates to around 1700. I haven't been able to find any documentation on height at the front and rear of the cheekpiece. Do they taper or not? Knowing this I should be able to get started. Many thanks
Greg

[Stophel]

I don't think I've ever measured how far the cheekpiece sticks out from the stock...  I just go by eye.  For most German rifles, they need to protrude rather farther out than the gun I just showed.  Usually they are fairly even from front to back, on occasion they protrude more at the front than at the rear (being closer to straight relative to the barrel centerline).  You just have to go with what is appropriate with the style of gun.   

[conquerordie]

Done by eye and feel. When ever I get down to final shaping I usually get rid of all my lines I've laid out and go by feel. Things just come together. I think because I've never done a german gun that wasn't a kit I'm over thinking things. When I get to this point in the project I will send pics. Going to start in letting the barrel this week. Thanks again everyone.
Greg