Author Topic: Linsay gravers  (Read 6067 times)

Offline bob hertrich

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Linsay gravers
« on: April 30, 2015, 05:49:04 PM »
I am going to purchase a Lindsay sharpening template and some gravers from them also. What material blank should I get. I am only doing patch box and general longrifle stuff.

Offline David Rase

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 06:42:35 PM »
All you need is the high speed steel for engraving brass and steel.  The harder the blank the easier it is to break the tip.  I have the M-42 and high speed steel and the high speed steel is my go to engraver.
David

Offline JTR

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 06:47:04 PM »
High Speed Steel ( HSS ) will work fine.

Cobalt will require sharpening with a diamond hone.

Tale a look at this page if you haven't already, for the Pro's and Cons of each type;  http://www.airgraver.com/Hand_Engraving_Tools_Overview.htm#LINDSAY GRAVER BLANKS

John
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 06:48:54 PM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline bob hertrich

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2015, 08:47:15 PM »
OK, thank you. That is good info. I was looking at their handle and it is pretty pricy. Is there a better alterative.

Offline David Rase

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 08:57:55 PM »
OK, thank you. That is good info. I was looking at their handle and it is pretty pricy. Is there a better alterative.
Get a piece of 3/8" round stock, chuck it up in a lathe and drill a clearance hole for the high speed steel tool bit, then drill and tap a hole in the side for a set screw to keep the high speed steel engraver tight in the handle.
David

Offline bowkill

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 11:01:14 PM »
Got a picture!
μολὼν λαβέ (Come and take them)

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 11:40:58 PM »
Quote
Got a picture!


It doesn't have to be steel.  This one is aluminum.

If you only plan to do hammer and chisel engraving and never buy a pneumatic setup, then when you order your template from Steve, specify that you want the 1/8" mandrel rather than the 3/16" one.  You can order HSS 1/8" lathe bits from Enco at considerable savings.  They also have them in various cobalt grades.  You want the M2 HSS ones that are $1.28 apiece.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2


Dave Kanger

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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2015, 03:21:36 AM »
I generally switched from HSS to cobalt tool bits when I had trouble turning tool steel using the HSS bits.   Now, I only buy cobalt tool bits (M42 from Lindsay), for lathe, die sinker chisels or gravers.      For gravers,  I find the cobalt more forgiving to grind to shape, and much more durable, at least in brass.    I use a knife maker's belt sander and diamond stones for shaping and sharpening,  so the hardness isn't an issue for me.   I love my cobalt bits. ;)

Offline goodtime7

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2015, 05:04:29 AM »
Appreciate the comments.   Are the lathe bits from Enco of the appropriate hardness to shape, sharpen and use?   Just wondering if the hardness has to be altered before using them, especially on steel?    thanks

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2015, 06:59:00 AM »
I just grind my tool bits and use them as they are.   I try not to draw them above a dark straw when grinding them, but I don't think that momentary heat will affect either HSS or cobolt alloys.    They work like that in the lathe and as graver bits.  I am sure someone will let us know if I am wrong about that.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2015, 05:23:37 PM »
Quote
Are the lathe bits from Enco of the appropriate hardness to shape, sharpen and use?   Just wondering if the hardness has to be altered before using them, especially on steel?
You use them "as delivered."  If machine sharpening, do not heat them more than your fingers can tolerate before dipping in water.

Square the end that goes into your handle, and then spin it into your belt sander at about a 45 degree angle.  This allows it to sit flat and eases entry into the handle.

After your initial rough shaping, your graver tip is sharpened across the facets, not with them, ie horizontally not vertically.  Otherwise, you will introduce grooves which will transfer to your cut.  This is especially important if bright cutting.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2015, 05:56:43 PM »
HHS / Cobalt % / M2 work under high temps when machining metals they are not effected like a carbon steel is to heat. Get yourself a diamond lapping plate and use that to sharpen your lathe / graver bits. Diamond cuts fast and you can get different grit sizes to speed up the process. There are many low cost diamond plates out there just Google diamond sharpening equipment. ;)
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2015, 06:47:14 PM »
Go to Smoky Mountain Knifeworks for your diamond plates.

http://www.smkw.com/

The part numbers you are looking for are:
D4C  325 grit
D4F  600 grit
D4E  1200 grit

They are $12.99 each.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

BrushCountryAg03

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2015, 01:17:40 AM »
COBALT!!!  Sure, you may break a tip now and then but requires a whole lot less sharpening on a regular basis compared to HSS and still less than M-42 to justify the additional cost. And if cutting something hard like a Ruger, you can always INCREASE your face angle resulting in a much stronger point.

Offline kutter

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2015, 01:00:24 AM »
Most all of the ready made shaped gravers that used to be sold were HS steel,,at best. usually less than that as they were targeted at the jewelery engravers trade.
 A few I have are marked HS  in a tiny stamp but for the most part they are just some sort of tool steel. They just needed to be harder than the soft metals of the jewelry & watch trades after all.  They will work OK on some gun work, especially the older stuff and M/Ldrs. but when you get into modern made parts, steels, investment castings, ect,,they break down.

The tiny 1/8 and 3/32 lathe tool bits make excellent engraving cutters. There are so many proprietary names for the steel types in them it's hard to keep track.
They do range from simple HSS to cobalt alloys and others and on up to carbide bits.
I use simple Mo-Max branded bits (don't even know what it's made of)  and also the Linsay proprietary 'Carbalt' bit (I think that's what he sells them as).
I used a lot of Stellite rod to make gravers and undercut punches in the past. It works great too. 3/32d or sq material,,no heat treating is necessary. Just grind to shape. I still have some on the bench after 45yrs.

All of these sharpen on regular equipment (except for the carbide of course). I'm not too fussy about all this stuff and if it cuts well enough I use it.

I'd stay away from carbide unless there is some reason you need them. The only reason I started cutting with them some years back was the Winchester 21 frames demanded it. Any thing else made you into a professional tool sharpener and occasional engraver. Even the carbide took a beating on those original W made frames.  Special grinding wheel to rough out the blank and diamond lap to finish the sharpening is needed.

I don't think I've used a single carbide bit since the last 21 I did and don't look forward to using any. If the steel is that hard, then it needs to be annealed or something else used to make it.

With HSS, a cobalt bit, ect,,sharpen with a template if you find that easiest to keep the angle(s) you want. Simple cheap diamond plate cuts fast and smooth and lasts a long time. I'm only on my second in the last 25 years of using them. The second one only because I lost the first one,,probably pushed it off the bench into the trash can I think.

No need to get into powerhones and fancy stuff unless you feel the need. I did for the carbide sharpening as I needed the high polish point w/ ceramic hones, diamond dust and all that .
But up till then I sharpened by free hand w/ oil stone minus the oil. Still do to touch up the point as I go.
If I didn't have the powerhone set up to quickly re-point a tool,,I'd be using one of the templates no doubt.


Keep it simple,,leaves more time to engrave.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 02:20:52 AM »
kutter - thanks, good information (again). I especially liked your "Keep it simple, leaves more time to engrave."

dave
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Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Linsay gravers
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2015, 12:30:31 AM »
I am going to purchase a Lindsay sharpening template and some gravers from them also. What material blank should I get. I am only doing patch box and general longrifle stuff.

Bob,

If ordering the Lindsay template remember they are made for 3/32 gravers, not 1/8 inch.  I emailed Steve Lindsay about this some time ago and this is his response:

"As ordered from the website they come setup for 3/32" square.  I have opened them up for 1/8" square on request for people though.  Extra charge is $20.  If you'd like this just order normal on the website and in the place provided for a note write that you'd like it setup for 1/8" square gravers for the additional $20

Best Regards, Steve"

So no problem getting them for 1/8" square gravers, just let him know when you order it.

Mole Eyes
Don Richards
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