Author Topic: Fitting Breech  (Read 8809 times)

Offline Keithbatt

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Fitting Breech
« on: July 06, 2015, 05:37:45 AM »
I have seen previous posts regarding this topic, but want to post pics of where I am and ask for clarification on where I'm going.

I threaded this 12L14 plug. It threads into the breech of a Rayl barrel. The shoulder is about 50 thousandths from seating against the barrel. The dykem show the first thread hits the end of the threads in the bore.

The last picture is the original plug. Should I try to replicate the profile at the front of this breech from Rayl?  

I see options of facing about 40 thousands off the front of my plug, then filing to fit, but do I file a bevel on the front?  Flat?  If I try to copy the profile of the original plug, I'll need to do most all of it on the lathe. Then the filing and fitting procedure I've seen described is confusing to me. Hence my questions about how specifically people would file the shape on the front of the plug.  

Am I missing something?

FYI this breechplug will be shaped into a recessed patent type breech to narrow the breech area to accommodate a reasonable size wrist.

Keith







« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 06:17:02 AM by Keithbatt »

Offline davec2

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2015, 04:53:25 AM »
Keith,

I'm sure Ed used a conventional bottoming tap to put the threads in the 2 gage barrel and there is not much of a step where the threads end.  I would measure the root diameter of the barrel threads (i.e. measure the ID of the thread in the barrel) and turn the end of the plug face to that diameter for the 0.050 you need to seat the shoulder.  Run the plug in and see how much the face of the plug needs to be trimmed back to get the exterior shoulder to close up.  Then carefully dress the face back until both the exterior shoulder and interior shoulder bottom out.  You may need to cut the face diameter back a little more than the 0.050 inches to get this completed, but I would start there.  You're not loosing any strength....if there are no threads to engage at the bottom of the thread in the barrel, the plug doesn't need them either.

By the by, please put a ruler across the muzzle and post a picture of what the business end of a 2 bore rifle looks like...and I thought a 4 gage blunderbuss was a butt kicker !!!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 04:54:58 AM by davec2 »
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Offline Keithbatt

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2015, 05:46:22 AM »
OK. I did that.  It seats on the shoulder at the end of the threads.  I can see witness marks in dykem on the breech face which correspond to the rifling.  The joint between the breech and the barrel is 95 the way there. The barrel isn't 100 square, or the threads in the barrel aren't 100% square either.  Dykem and a file has all but closed the gap.

Keith








Offline WadePatton

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2015, 06:15:38 AM »
I'm not being helpful here, but geez i do want to "attempt" to cut a string/card with that one.  

or a 2x4... ;D

Can't wait to see the GUN that bbl becomes integral with.  Keep us informed.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 06:18:04 AM by WadePatton »
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Offline JBJ

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 03:41:05 PM »
Where do the wheels go? WOW!
J.B.

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 03:41:35 PM »
Now, that is going to make up into a MAN's gun!

-Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

kaintuck

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 04:21:29 PM »
a squirrel rifle????????????? :o

marc n tomtom

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 04:43:20 PM »
That is really cool...I shot a 4 bore years ago but this is on an other league. What do you plan on using the gun for ?

Offline Keithbatt

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 05:17:41 PM »
That is really cool...I shot a 4 bore years ago but this is on an other league. What do you plan on using the gun for ?

After I shoot it once, hanging on the wall and looking nice. I shot a 4 and thought to myself,"I should get a 2". So I did.

Keith

Offline Bill Ladd

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2015, 05:26:44 PM »
My shoulder aches just looking at that thing. :o  Have fun with it!

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2015, 06:12:23 PM »
#@!! $#@* --- that's not a rifle it's a HOWITZER ; :o D --- good luck with your project ;)
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2015, 06:52:00 PM »
I'm not being helpful here, but geez i do want to "attempt" to cut a string/card with that one.  

or a 2x4... ;D

Can't wait to see the GUN that bbl becomes integral with.  Keep us informed.

It's an honest to God big boom elephant gun. First you load it and then after putting the ramrod back a quart of whisky must be drank until it's below the label and THEN you fire it.............maybe.

Bob Roller

sloe bear

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 08:06:09 PM »
 I have a canon I built of the same bore, it's mounted on a carriage with some old wooden rims and hard wood trunnions to hold it and it has a serious kick, I would not even attempt to shoot that critter off hand up to my shoulder. good luck, oh by the way I shoot 500 grains of 1F with a patched ball which is quite accurate at 500 + yards.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 08:58:26 PM »
a squirrel rifle????????????? :o
must some big tree rats in them parts
marc n tomtom

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2015, 11:37:43 PM »
I concur with JBJ who asked about the wheels.   That is a canon!  :D    Seriously,  are you really going to shoot that?

Offline Keithbatt

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2015, 03:52:03 AM »
I concur with JBJ who asked about the wheels.   That is a canon!  :D    Seriously,  are you really going to shoot that?

Yes I do intend to shoot but only for fun. I'll start with very light loads (which I expect will still recoil heavily) and work my way up until it's no fun.

Three balls

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2015, 04:05:20 AM »
Ball or bullet, and how much does said ball or bullet weigh? Curious minds and all that.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2015, 04:09:01 AM »
A true two bore ball should weigh about 3500 grains or so.

Offline Keithbatt

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2015, 04:12:50 AM »
It is a 2 bore.  By definition bore equals the number of round lead balls the diameter of the bore to equal one pound.  So for common bores like 12 (12ga) 12 balls the size of the bore equal one pound.  2 bore, 2 balls equal one pound.  

So.... it shoots a 1/2 pound round ball.  7000 grains in a lb. so 3500 grains round ball.  BOOM/ouch.  I shall see.

Actual weight may vary. I will do some more research and see exactly what I need and make a mold.

Keith


Offline WadePatton

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2015, 05:27:50 AM »
Don't bother yourself making a mould, engage Jeff Tanner. That's exactly what I would do (unless I had a mill and proper tooling in hand).    

If you'll look closely you see that Jeff offers an alternative to 3500 grains of lead for cannon-sized balls.  THAT might be a really good option. 

Cut the sprue off with a hatchet!

Whatever you do...get it all on video!

or it didn't happen.  ;D

« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 05:30:58 AM by WadePatton »
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2015, 06:31:36 AM »
I can't wait to see that thing finished and you shoot it.   :)

Offline kentucky bucky

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2015, 07:40:52 AM »
You could THROW a 2 bore roundball at somebody and kill them!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 07:42:43 AM by kentucky bucky »

Offline Keithbatt

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Re: Fitting Breech
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2015, 07:45:30 AM »
Well, I appreciate all the interest even if it's only
To watch a fool suffer. 

Either way, I'm doing my best, working slowly and learning. I will likely take a long while to finish this project so you will have to wait for the results, as will I. I'm trying to get the breech figured out so that I may get the barrel inletted into a rather substantial piece of English walnut I bought from Dunlap.  I'm planning to have David Rase do the inlet and ramrod hole.

The rifle will be in the style of an English sporting rifle. I'm loosely basing the rifle on Track's English sporting rifle plans, but bigger and with awkward proportions which are dictated by the large barrel. By the way, the barrel is 1.75 across the flats.  That makes everything awkward. You can't just make everything bigger, unless you have the hands of a giant to make it around the wrist.   I'm trying to figure out how to get a bar lock against the barrel, and maybe recess it.  If I get the lock all the way up to the barrel to make it as narrow as possible it's still pretty wide.  I constantly look at double rifles and shotguns and see how they recess the breech to narrow the wrists. In my mind I envisioned doing the same on this single barrel, but this would not give me any wood on the sides of the barrel at all (like a double rifle, where the fore end wood does not go above the lock whatsoever all the way to the front of the fore end).

So now I'm still drawing and mocking up. This plug shown that I made is likely trash. I think to maintain the appearance I'm going for I will need a more traditional patent breech which is wide on the lock side. The breech I made just doesn't have the material to do this.

Towards that end, I bought a bigger piece of 12l14 and think I'll make a more substantial breech plug... Then I can mill a traditional patent breech. This will only make the whole gun about 2.25" across the widest part of the stock. This isn't much wider than my 4 bore blunderbuss.  I can use the rest of the steel to make a cannon barrel.

Any thoughts or criticisms of this thought process?  I'm in no hurry. It took about 18 months to get the barrel. If I recall the conversation correctly, Ed said something like, "I'll make you the barrel, but I'll wait until someone else wants one too."  I guess this isn't all that common.

Keith