New To Forum

[KC]

I've been a member for a few months but have never introduced myself. I've been interested in building a muzzleloader for a long time but have always put it off for one reason or another; getting married, having and raising 4 kids, and starting a business immediately comes to mind. I came across this site and have really enjoyed the exchange of information and ideas. I had become more motivated to actually start a project some time back because of a growing interest in blacksmithing and woodworking with hand tools. It all seems to go hand in hand. A trip to Colonial Williamsburg last year kind of kicked my urge into high gear.

So far, I have collected all the hardware and fittings for an early Tennessee Mountain Rifle. It started with an Ebay score on a Bean styled butt plate and trigger guard, and a Siler percussion lock kit that had never been assembled. The lock plate is shaped like the Siler flint lock and is more Germanic. The more I looked at it and the more I read and pondered, I decided to build the lock but put it aside for a future project or just sell it. An English flintlock seemed more appropriate for my project. I also picked up a couple barrel blanks, one 48" heavy round barrel and one 42" octagonal barrel. Neither is rifled or threaded for a breech plug. I've picked up the remainder of parts and pieces from T.O.T.W. I have an absolutely awesome curly maple stock blank which I am a little fearful of ruining. I also picked up a set of castings for a 1790's Ketland lock from Jack Brooks. My brother is a tool and die maker and will help me with the machining on that, but in typical fashion for me, I've most likely overestimated what I think I am capable of. I think that's a common trait among mechanical engineers. Although I am still anxious to to try building a rifling machine and rifle my barrels, I am now leaning towards buying a ready to use barrel, a pre-assembled lock, and a partially inlet walnut or cherry stock just so I can get going on assembling a rifle. If that one turns out ok, then maybe I can try rifling a barrel and making some other parts on the next gun.

One question I do have regarding my round barrel blank. Has anyone here ever attempted filing the flats into a round blank? It seems pretty labor intensive. This particular blanks seems like it could easily accommodate 7/8" or 1" across the flats.

[sqrldog]

Do yourself a favor call Bobby Hoyt he can rifle the barrel and plane the barrel flats for you. Tim.

[PPatch]

Greetings KC and welcome to ALR.

A Tennessee rifle sounds like a good first project, and you can't go wrong immulating Baxter Bean's work. I agree with you about putting the fancy maple blank aside and obtaining something else for your first go-round. Maple, walnut or ash are good choices, I would look for some plain(ish) maple or a walnut blank.

Plan your gun before doing any woodworking. Draw it on paper then transfer your drawing to the wood before you cut. Before you do any drawing or cutting you'll need to decide on caliber and obtain a barrel. It all begins with the barrel and where the touch hole is located, from that you can position the lock and triggers. A Chambers late ketland lock will look right on a Tennessee gun. It is up to you whether you build one from that Brooks kit or buy a finished lock. If you are eager to get started then buy a Chambres late ketland. Eventually making that kit lock will be very educational.

Lay aside that fat 48" round barrel for the time being, yes it is possible to create flats on it, loads of work. The 42" octagon might work, it will be nose heavy on the rifle. A swamped barrel with be easier to handle and not near as heavy. There are lots of 42" swamped barrel choices on the market. I get mine from Buckeye barrels. Barb at Buckeye is a pleasure to deal with and knows her barrels. She also offers a Southern style swamped barrel. I just received two of those and I believe they are going to balance well in the rifles I intend them for.

You can fabricate most of the hardware for the rifle, its just light metal work, but doing them will increase your metalworking knowledge. You will need to know how to solder and braze too if you get into butt plate and trigger guard work.

The object is to enjoy the process. Don't get into a rush on your build, think through each step before doing it. Have fun.

Again, welcome to the forum KC

dave

[Acer Saccharum]

Welcome to the forum, KC!

[kaintuck]

 
ahhh....the energy of a new builder!!!!!!!!
welcome to the madness...........look at a lot of pictures and read stuff here and the other forums....get a big cup of patience and read somemore......

and don't sweat the process....just remember its a hobby!!!

marc n tomtom

[KC]

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the great advice. I've been reading quite a bit, on this site and from my growing collection of books on building long rifles. I have many of the more popular how-to books and have read the fantastic tutorial by Mike Brooks several times. I understand the process pretty well but like I kind of eluded to earlier, have been a "deer in the headlights" for some time. I think publicly admitting I want to give this a reasonable try is my first step.

Tim, I like the idea of calling Bobby Hoyt or one of the other barrel manufacturers about finishing my blanks. I'm fairly close to Long Hammock Barrels, maybe they're an option.

Dave, I have tried making some ram rod pipes from some of the tutorials I found here just because it seemed like a cheap and easy way to jump in and actually make something. They actually turned out pretty well for a first try and I'm sure the next ones could be much better. The steel was cheap so I didn't feel too bad about fouling up a couple.

I'm sure as I get into my project, I'll have lots of questions. It's good to know there are a lot people willing to offer advice. Thanks again for the warm welcome and good advice.
KC

[WadePatton]

Welcome KC,

So far so good eh?  Only 4 mistakes and none of them will show!

If you have any "rush" at all in your system, I'd relegate the bbl blanks to future projects and order up a new bbl, swamped and breeched. You may find paying to have a blank them properly completed, plus your initial investment, to be very close to the price of a new, ready-to-go bbl from any number of makers.  

Get a $100-150 piece of wood.  My friends and family are knocked out by the 150 piece of Harrison maple that I used on the first one.  They can't see my errors and are not used to looking at wood with any curl in it.  And there should be enough curl in a piece thusly priced to teach you a little about working with the grain (As the Grain Turns ).  And you won't wind up with a plain jane piece of wood, wishing you'd spent 50 more dollars for more curl.

Having the basic profile, bbl channel, and rr hole drilled are the only bits of "pre-fab" work I'd consider.  I have had help with the rr hole and basic profile, but let in my bbls by hand (because they are swamped and I don't care to ship 'em all over the place.)

I'm quite interested in how the Jack Brooks castings work out for you.  I'd like to give some of those a go.  But am lock poor presently and need to get those that I have nailed into something.  Highly recommend getting a "pre-fab" lock.  You'll be taking the lock apart and can go over tweaking and tuning at that point-get a better feel for how to attack the castings later and what is critical or not.

Build your triggerset.  There's great little photo series inside a current thread here.  Or buy 'em.  Double set.

Get the Greasy Cove book by Dave Byrd if you don't have it.  

Post pics as you go, might save a "stitch" or two.

Have a blast, most effective way to permanently learn something is to make a mistake.  Dig in, make mistakes. Correcting them is an integral part of turning out good work.

 My first gun took about 8 years from lock/bbl purchase to hunting, then was re-worked somewhat and refinished and proved itself VERY effective in the woods last year. Finally got another un-related project completed and out of my hair just yesterday.  I'm about to get my woodworking stuff bought/built and set up here in the house so I can dig back in.

Fall is coming!  Let's get crackin!

[Nordnecker]

I, Like you, had a good stock blank that I was fearful of ruining. I had it for about 6 yrs before I found this website and figured out what I wanted to build. Even after getting my hands on the barrel, lock, and other bits I was hesitant to mess up that nice piece of wood. So I decided to practice on a trashy piece of walnut that I had layin' around. It was time well spent. I inlet the barrel and lock, drilled the RR hole, inlet the buttplate and got experience and enough confidence to start the real build.
I much prefer a plywood (1/4" etc) pattern to a piece of paper. Plywood doesn't bend and swell like paper does. Also, you can pick up that piece of plywood and feel how that gun will fit you- LOP, drop at heel, angle of the buttplate etc. That will give you confidence to trace it into the stock blank and proceed. You'll figure it out.

[Hungry Horse]

 KC, if there is an auto racing group near you, find out if they will give, or sell, you the scraps of Lexan they use for windscreens. Stock pattern made from this material allows you to move the pattern around, and see the wood grain. I've been using it for years, and would'nt consider anything else.

   HUngry Horse

[gunmaker]

welcome to forum KC.  Get yourself a good book on building, Lots a info out there now, net & plenty of books/DVD's on gun making.....Tom

[KC]

Wade, I think I agree with your thoughts on the barrel, as others have also suggested. I kind of jumped on them because they popped up one at a time, and they were cheap. It wasn't really my intent to buy two, it just kind of worked out that way.

Also, I already have a crazy curly stock blank, one that I'm certain would make a beautiful rifle in the hands of many of you more experienced builders. I think if I start with a straighter grained piece of wood, or move very slowly and carefully with this one, I should do ok. I'm teaching myself to sharpen my tools. When I was younger I carved a couple duck decoys and didn't realize the importance of keeping my tools sharp. Looking back, it made carving kind of a chore if not near impossible.

I'll try to post how the Ketland lock castings I got from Mr. Brooks turn out. I think that will be a future project all by itself. There's a picture of the original lock (at least I think the original) on his web site. It was striking to me, and probably not the best choice for a beginner, but it will make a great looking lock that will set a rifle apart. I'm leaning towards saving that for a later gun as well, mainly so I can just get started on the basic assembly of a rifle. I did find an extremely well written tutorial that a guy put together showing how he built a Manton V-pan lock from a set of castings from The Rifle Shoppe. His method incorporated some really ingenious techniques that I never would have thought of. If you google "building a Manton V-pan lock" and you'll find it. Definitely a fascinating read.

I'll also be building my trigger set, kind of. I got Davis double set triggers in kit form from TOTW. It basically requires cleaning up of some castings and final fitting and assembly. I have Pryor Mountain Bill's booklet on triggers but I think I'll search out the Greasy Cove book you suggested. Can never have too much info.

[WadePatton]

Greasy Cove/Buffalo Valley is simply a compilation of original rifles from makers in that area (Upper East TN) and a little history on each.  Worth the few bucks.  Nearly every variant and oddity of a "TN" rifle I care to build is contained in those pages.

There's a youtube of a "Mike Miller" of KY who notes that "plain" guns appear simpler, but can be harder to do-to get all the simplicity "right".  There's less to draw your eye away from mistake...really have to pay attention".

"Small guns are a pain and plain guns are a pain". 



pardon if you've seen all that.  but it's good stuff.

[BJH]

Depending on where you live come to the Gunmakers fair at Dixon's. The last week end in July.
Bring a notebook and camera. The reason I exhibit there is to talk about my gun building addiction. All the exhibitors are there to answer questions as well as sell their wares. You will leave with more questions than answers because of your exposure to the information overload there. Dixon's is near Allentown Pennsylvania. The seminars are excellent. I've been attending for at least 25 years. BJH

[Dphariss]

  <snip>
One question I do have regarding my round barrel blank. Has anyone here ever attempted filing the flats into a round blank? It seems pretty labor intensive. This particular blanks seems like it could easily accommodate 7/8" or 1" across the flats.

Welcome to the forum.
There are far better ways to spend time than filing a round barrel octagonal. Its not as easy as you might think.
Before jumping into barrel rifling and such I would recommend you refine you stock shaping and inletting skills. If the wood work is sub par nothing else matters.

Dan

[mattdog]

" I am now leaning towards buying a ready to use barrel, a pre-assembled lock, and a partially inlet walnut or cherry stock just so I can get going on assembling a rifle. If that one turns out ok, then maybe I can try rifling a barrel and making some other parts on the next gun."

Good thinking.  don't overwhelm yourself right from the beginning by starting out with a rifling machine and spending endless 100's of hours trying to file flats on a barrel blank.  Ambitious? yes.  Practical? No  Get yourself some commercial parts "ready to assemble" to get your feet wet and build some confidence.  Once you've built the first one you will have a much better idea of what goes into a build.

[Joe S.]

I would agree with the rest of the folks.Being new to builds myself your going have plenty on your plate without making the barrel ect.Get a kit and see if its what you want to do and then have at it.I'm liking my first build and there's plenty to do yet.

[oldtravler61]

Guess it's time I introduce myself. Have been into muzzeloading for almost 45 years now. Have made three guns from scratch except for the barrel an locks. All flint. It amazes me of the multitude of skilled people on here. You all have helped far more than I can tell you. To all many thanks.  But I still have alot to learn! Again thank you for letting me join you. An hope to meet some of you at the class show this year.

[David R. Pennington]

My first build was from a blank with a Siler kit lock. It was not really the correct style lock but it has proven very reliable.  I have an excellent machinist / gunsmith neighbor who was a lot of help with advice. My biggest mistake was leaving too much wood on the fore stock. It still is a good shooter though a little muzzle heavy with a 15/16 straight 42 inch .50 cal. Recently I decided I couldn't stand it any longer and I shaved about a half a bushel of kindling off that fore end and reshaped a little around the breech. It was too square. I refinished it and it doesn't shoot any better but it isn't quite as ugly as it was.
I don't think drilling rammer hole is all that difficult.
I've never used a precarved and likely won't. I like to see shavings pile up on the shop floor. There are some good books available and a lot of good info here. Each step creates a new challenge. Enjoy.

[Acer Saccharum]

It's hard enough making a rifle for the first time. Try not to make it any worse for yourself.

Use a ready made lock and barrel and a plain piece of wood. You are guaranteed to want to do things differently for the next gun, plus have a lot more experience under your belt.

I do not intend to discourage you from a lock kit, or filing your own barrel, but while focusing on those details, you can miss really important lessons about stock architecture and where components must go to make a functional firearm.

[KC]

Thanks for all the great input. I've actually changed course a little bit because of the good comments here. I ended up getting a lock that's ready to go instead of doing the lock kit first. I emailed Dunlap Woodcrafts to find out about stock blanks and ended up dealing with Daniel, a really helpful guy. They were getting ready for Dixon's and were focused on that, but he had a couple locks they were wanting to sell so I bought them both, L&R Durs Egg locks. They seem pretty nice, one was used and one was new and the price was too good to pass on. I don't know how appropriate the locks are for what I was trying to do, but I'm not too worried about historical correctness. I just want to build something and shoot it. I'm going to order a barrel and find a straight grained piece of walnut and go from there. I'll set the unfinished barrels and the lock kits aside for future projects.

Thanks again for all the tips and suggestions.