Author Topic: Opinion needed  (Read 8671 times)

Offline varsity07840

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
Opinion needed
« on: May 22, 2015, 08:25:31 PM »


I'm a bit concerned about the gap where the hooked plug mates with the tang. It appears to be worn from barrel removals over the years. I'm looking at it from the aspect of safely shooting it. The plug mates up tight on the sides.

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 09:08:43 PM »
There is a hooked threaded plug that goes into the bore itself. That is the one you need to be concerned about mostly. I would never say it's safe to shoot on the internet, or anywhere else, without a qualified inspection.

If the gap we're looking at is just at the top edge, I'd have no concerns about that. If the barrel is shucking around, then there is the sure likelihood it will beat the gap bigger after firing a lot.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 11:20:51 PM »
Don't want a fired barrel popping up and back in your nose........??  How secure is the hook in the tang?  How much slop in the connection?? Personally, for accuracy and safety I would want a nice tight fit, which you may have.   As Tom says if it is just a cosmetic issue then it is historical charm......  Looks like a nice gun...
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Ky-Flinter

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7460
  • Born in Kentucke, just 250 years late
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 11:25:30 PM »
It may just be the camera angle, but the gap looks wider on the right, than the left.  I agree with Tom and Doc.

-Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2015, 12:20:38 AM »
I don't disagree with anything Tom or Tim had to say; but if that is an antique (as it appears),  I think the best course of action would be to hang it on the wall and get a copy made to shoot.   

Just my two cents.....

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 12:53:21 AM »
I'd shoot it.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 06:03:40 AM »
So now you have your opinions.

Did you get the one that you needed?

The beauty, and downfall, of the ALR is that you get more opinions than you can possibly digest. Pick the one closest to the answer you wanted to hear.  :D

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 06:16:49 AM »
Everyone has an opinion.   ;D

Offline Ky-Flinter

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7460
  • Born in Kentucke, just 250 years late
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 06:07:54 PM »
The beauty, and downfall, of the ALR is that you get more opinions than you can possibly digest. Pick the one closest to the answer you wanted to hear. 

I agree that most questions asked here will return many, sometimes differing, answers.  But I would suggest the OP pick the answer that makes the most sense, which may or may not be what they wanted to hear.

-Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2015, 07:08:53 PM »
But Ron... Where's the fun in that???   ;D ;D :D
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Online rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19380
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2015, 09:00:41 PM »
Whether I'd shoot it or not has almost nothing to do with a worn joint at a hooked breech.  There are many who would never shoot an original, but I am not among them.  I proof and shoot guns test are not particularly collectible, especially double percussion shotguns.  With Damascus barrels, no less. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 04:01:58 PM »
I love "I want your opinion " questions. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Jerry V Lape

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3028
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2015, 01:28:38 AM »
Yeh we got excess opinions just laying around unused.  Might as well share with those that need some!

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2015, 02:00:37 AM »
They are sort of like elbows.. nearly everyone has at least two
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline oldtravler61

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4401
  • We all make mistakes.
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 04:59:08 AM »
Not an expert by no means. But I would be more concerned with the forward hook up. Towards the for stock. If that is weak. By know means shoot the gun. An how strong is the forward breech area?imho

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15651
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2015, 05:22:46 PM »
I'd prob. shoot it too, after-all, we shoot this one, cracks, dings and all.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Angus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2015, 03:23:11 AM »
Reminds me of an editorial I read about custom cars and motorcycles, do you want paint on a trailer queen or do you want memories.
If the breech is secure, I'm with Mike, shoot it!

Offline Keithbatt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2015, 06:25:03 AM »
Well, I ended up with this gun.  The original poster asked some questions about it as it was listed for sale. I have it now. Without disparaging anyone but myself, this gun is pretty out there and the breech to tang fit is the smallest problem.

First and most obvious when I got it via USPS is that it broke in half in transit. Without getting into it deeply here (it's not germane to gun building) I kept the rifle and came an amicable resolution with the seller.

I bought the rifle not for originality, but because I wanted a shooter and also to learn about the architecture and construction of this style of rifle.  

After I settled the cracked stock issue from shipping I disassembled the rifle. I learned a lot. Specifically that I will not likely buy a rifle via photograph in the future.  So.... What I assumed might be a bored and sleeved original barrel turned out to be so much more confounding to me.  It has a liner, but it is also split/joined at the wedding band where it transitions from octagon/16 side to round.  Like the original barrel was cut in half, bored then reassembled over a liner?  And the rear sight is drifted over hard right.  And the barrel isn't straight, Like crooked at the joint.  Like someone cut the barrel in half, bored the front and back half, but not very precisely then slid them over a liner.  They might line up if the boring was on center, but it's not.  The front half of the barrel is clearly off to one side.

I can only imagine what will may hide behind the breechplug. The sight is hard over to compensate for the completely wonky barrel.  

I still like the look of the rifle. I may inspect the breech, proof test it and shoot it.  Maybe I'll just look at it. Maybe I'll re-barrel it.

Keith.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 11:03:13 AM by Keithbatt »

eddillon

  • Guest
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 06:53:38 AM »
Keith, call me.  Stop by.  I would like to see it in the flesh.
Ed

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2015, 06:57:05 AM »
Keith,

What you describe is how people "stretch" a barrel that was cut off at some point.  This is a cosmetic restoration that is almost never intended to be shootable.   I will not tell you how I learned this.  ;)   This is actually another reason you should not expect to shoot an antique.   It is also why, as you said, you should not by a gun, especially an antique,  sight unseen.  The more it costs, the closer it should be examined.   Preferably, all guns should be disassembled and examined, but sellers usually won't allow this.   Many never did it themselves, and would rather be blissful in their ignorance.  Welcome to the wonderful world of buying antiques.  

Offline Keithbatt

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2015, 07:19:53 AM »
Well I didn't pay a lot and I did learn a lot.   I forgot to mention the underrib was attached via bedding compound/or colored epoxy.


Offline whitebear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 837
Re: Opinion needed
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 02:32:15 AM »
Boy O Boy, sounds like Bubba the gunsmith had fun with that one.
In the beginning God...
Georgia - God's vacation spot